I'm asking for assistance from fellow Catholics.

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Stephen0

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I have noticed in reading many of the post here of posters using quotes from the OT and NT in trying to defend the doctrines of our faith. Many times this practice ends up being a war of quotes with others. This results in a draw with no progress in reaching the truth. However, I am interested in a different approach. I try to look at my faith from an archeologist view point. How could I reconstruct the facts of the situation from the surrounding information rather than one source of just the Bible.
Case in point: If I wanted to prove that back in the 3rd century that Christians believed that Jesus was God then I can refer to the mosaic floor fish inscription found in the Mediddo Church ruins. The fish represents an acrostic for the phrase “Jesus Christ, God’s Son, Savior,” which was commonly used during this time. Another example would be to prove that the devout christians during the times of the persecutions believed in praying for the dead. This can be done by pointing to the inscriptions found in certain catacombs that ask people to pray for their souls as they will pray for them. Additionally, if I did want to prove that our NT was not corrupted in the earliest times, then I could go to the Apostilic Church Fathers and use their extensive quotes from the NT to nearly reconstruct much of the Good News.
Therefore, I would like to build a data base or collection of source material outside of biblical quotes that could be used to defend our doctrines of faith. Naturally, documentation concerning such artifacts or location would be helpful. Additionally, if anyone has any books that could reference sources of this kind of information it would be useful for anyone like myself in such a search. Thanks for any future imput.
 
Stephen0 said:
I have noticed in reading many of the post here of posters using quotes from the OT and NT in trying to defend the doctrines of our faith. Many times this practice ends up being a war of quotes with others. This results in a draw with no progress in reaching the truth. However, I am interested in a different approach. I try to look at my faith from an archeologist view point. How could I reconstruct the facts of the situation from the surrounding information rather than one source of just the Bible.
Case in point: If I wanted to prove that back in the 3rd century that Christians believed that Jesus was God then I can refer to the mosaic floor fish inscription found in the Mediddo Church ruins. The fish represents an acrostic for the phrase “Jesus Christ, God’s Son, Savior,” which was commonly used during this time. Another example would be to prove that the devout christians during the times of the persecutions believed in praying for the dead. This can be done by pointing to the inscriptions found in certain catacombs that ask people to pray for their souls as they will pray for them. Additionally, if I did want to prove that our NT was not corrupted in the earliest times, then I could go to the Apostilic Church Fathers and use their extensive quotes from the NT to nearly reconstruct much of the Good News.
Therefore, I would like to build a data base or collection of source material outside of biblical quotes that could be used to defend our doctrines of faith. Naturally, documentation concerning such artifacts or location would be helpful. Additionally, if anyone has any books that could reference sources of this kind of information it would be useful for anyone like myself in such a search. Thanks for any future imput.
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Have no books or evidence to (name removed by moderator)ut but I’d be more than happy to help in the search.
 
The only problem I could see with this would be the fact that many of the inscriptions are not … what is the word… you know, signed. we don’t know who put them up there… therefore their authenticity is doubtful (whether we like what they say or not). Take St. Callixtus’ outside of Rome… plenty of descriptions, plenty of tiles, but no names other than that of the dead.

St. Filumena Pray for us.

better reference and such would be Early Church Fathers and a strong knowledge of what THEY taught and believed…

IMHO
 
 
Stephen0 said:
I have noticed in reading many of the post here of posters using quotes from the OT and NT in trying to defend the doctrines of our faith. Many times this practice ends up being a war of quotes with others. This results in a draw with no progress in reaching the truth. However, I am interested in a different approach. I try to look at my faith from an archeologist view point. How could I reconstruct the facts of the situation from the surrounding information rather than one source of just the Bible.
Case in point: If I wanted to prove that back in the 3rd century that Christians believed that Jesus was God then I can refer to the mosaic floor fish inscription found in the Mediddo Church ruins. The fish represents an acrostic for the phrase “Jesus Christ, God’s Son, Savior,” which was commonly used during this time. Another example would be to prove that the devout christians during the times of the persecutions believed in praying for the dead. This can be done by pointing to the inscriptions found in certain catacombs that ask people to pray for their souls as they will pray for them. Additionally, if I did want to prove that our NT was not corrupted in the earliest times, then I could go to the Apostilic Church Fathers and use their extensive quotes from the NT to nearly reconstruct much of the Good News.
Therefore, I would like to build a data base or collection of source material outside of biblical quotes that could be used to defend our doctrines of faith. Naturally, documentation concerning such artifacts or location would be helpful. Additionally, if anyone has any books that could reference sources of this kind of information it would be useful for anyone like myself in such a search. Thanks for any future imput.
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I totally agree with you.

Peace.
 
Well this is a start and thanks for the imput everyone. I did have a horrible time reconnecting to this particular thread. I couldn’t find it through the search window but reconnected to it through my e-mail notification. As soon as I get the chance I will explore some of the leads that you all are furnishing.
Sires6, I don’t see a problem with having to know the authors of the inscriptions on the graves, if the dating of the inscriptions can be confirmed. Mainly, it is the beliefs that existed in the historic era that concern me. If several unknown writers around the period of 150 AD asked for prayers for a deceased person then we can assume that the core Christian community had a belief in praying for the dead and therefore in Purgatory otherwise the inscription would have been blotted out and not permitted in such a holy place. It’s the signs and artifacts of faith left by the community that speaks for Christanity in the earliest period that I am after.
I hope that everyone reading will benefit from the joint entries that are furnished in this co-operative venture. Thanks again.
 
Stephen0 said:
Well this is a start and thanks for the imput everyone. I did have a horrible time reconnecting to this particular thread. I couldn’t find it through the search window but reconnected to it through my e-mail notification. As soon as I get the chance I will explore some of the leads that you all are furnishing.
Sires6, I don’t see a problem with having to know the authors of the inscriptions on the graves, if the dating of the inscriptions can be confirmed. Mainly, it is the beliefs that existed in the historic era that concern me. If several unknown writers around the period of 150 AD asked for prayers for a deceased person then we can assume that the core Christian community had a belief in praying for the dead and therefore in Purgatory otherwise the inscription would have been blotted out and not permitted in such a holy place. It’s the signs and artifacts of faith left by the community that speaks for Christanity in the earliest period that I am after.
I hope that everyone reading will benefit from the joint entries that are furnished in this co-operative venture. Thanks again.
Click to expand...
You can also check this website Newman apologetics resource the four marks of the church.

:signofcross: :byzsoc: :bowdown:
 
Stephen0 said:
I have noticed in reading many of the post here of posters using quotes from the OT and NT in trying to defend the doctrines of our faith. Many times this practice ends up being a war of quotes with others. This results in a draw with no progress in reaching the truth. However, I am interested in a different approach. I try to look at my faith from an archeologist view point. How could I reconstruct the facts of the situation from the surrounding information rather than one source of just the Bible.
Case in point: If I wanted to prove that back in the 3rd century that Christians believed that Jesus was God then I can refer to the mosaic floor fish inscription found in the Mediddo Church ruins. The fish represents an acrostic for the phrase “Jesus Christ, God’s Son, Savior,” which was commonly used during this time. Another example would be to prove that the devout christians during the times of the persecutions believed in praying for the dead. This can be done by pointing to the inscriptions found in certain catacombs that ask people to pray for their souls as they will pray for them. Additionally, if I did want to prove that our NT was not corrupted in the earliest times, then I could go to the Apostilic Church Fathers and use their extensive quotes from the NT to nearly reconstruct much of the Good News.
Therefore, I would like to build a data base or collection of source material outside of biblical quotes that could be used to defend our doctrines of faith. Naturally, documentation concerning such artifacts or location would be helpful. Additionally, if anyone has any books that could reference sources of this kind of information it would be useful for anyone like myself in such a search. Thanks for any future imput.
Click to expand...
That would be making use of the historical critical method. Much has been written on this.

As a start though (from a Catholic standpoint) read the encyclical Divino Afflante Spiritu by Pope Pius XII, and the previous encyclical *Providentissimus Deus *by Pope Leo XIII.

There is a book out there that anthologizes magisterial documents on Scripture. It’s called The Scripture Documents, and you can find it on amazon.

Oh yeah, I’m no longer Catholic, but the material I provide is very much in line with Catholic teaching.
 
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