I'm Back: Convert, then ex-convert, now reconvert?

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andyklein

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This is complicated…

But the simple story is: I converted when I was 19 last year. By the beginning of this year, I transformed into some kind of agnostic/atheist. Now, I think I want to reconvert at 21.

I grew up in a very secular home. I guess I “stumbled?” across Catholicism in my late teens in my attempts either to find meaning or out of my own vanity to ascribe meaning to everything. I probably rushed into it in some sort of childish, romantic view of the world.

After studying philosophy and art and English literature, I was either lured away or I drew myself away from the Church. I thought about the “nothingness” and existentialism and read Foucault, Heidegger, Derrida, Lacan, etc, and came to “realize” how meaningless and absurd everything is. I eventually rejected pretty much “everything,” including art and philosophy and questioned existence (particularly mine) itself.

Absurdity and meaningless got old after a while, but even after I had “destroyed” “everything,” I feel pulled back to the Church, not because of some naïve or idealistic reason like before (I don’t think), but because there is something that gives everything a spark. It certainly doesn’t follow that there is a god now, which is why I still am not sure if I should reconvert.

I’m going to reject any systematic philosophical system as “truth” (but simply particular ways of trying to make sense of the world), and I’m aware of my epistemological bias, but I want to return.

Any advice would be appreciated.
 
Why you should come back? Or why did you " stumble" as you put it?
 
andyklein said:
Any advice would be appreciated.
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You asked for advice. My advice is this.

You are still very young. You have much to learn and much hardship to go through in life. Seek Jesus. Look for Jesus. During those difficult times you are going to need Jesus.

You find Jesus in prayer. You can pray any time you want and there he is, willing to listen and to speak with you, and if you practice physical stillness and interior silence then you might actually hear him at times.

You will find Jesus in Scripture. Make the Bible part of your life. Buy one and make it your prized possession and never go anywhere without it. Make the Scriptures part of who you are. You do that a little at a time, ten minutes each day while you chew your Captain Crunch in the morning, every day for the rest of your life. You will find Jesus there. Trust me on this.

You will find Jesus the Doctor and Jesus the Healer in the confessional. Go. Now. Find a Church, walk in and ask for a priest. Forgiveness is just a small part of confession. Confession is a sacrament of healing. Be healed. Confess.

You will find Jesus your beloved, Jesus your lover, in the Mass and in the Eucharist. Go every day if you can.

You will find Jesus in others. Pray that God sends you a decrepit, broken, dying, wretch. Pray that he sends you someone poor, someone who smells horrible and who lives in a room in a roach infested house in the worst part of town. And drive that guy to the doctor when he needs it, to the store once in a while, give him a couple of bucks, invite him to dinner at your house and tell him how much both you and Jesus love him.

And don’t worry too much about what you believe. Belief isn’t something that happens to you. Belief is a conscious choice. Choose to believe all that God has revealed to us through the Church and ask God for help with the stuff you don’t understand. Choose to accept it all and then don’t worry about it too much.

You will be filled with joy and peace, and when everyone is freaking out over the the crisis of the day, they will ask you how you can smile and be so calm.

That’s my advice.

-Tim-
 
You only convert once. After that it is a journey of ups and downs, mistakes and corrections.
 
I’ve had similar problems as you.

but I’ve come to realize that God calls us, not matter how much we want to run away sometimes. a lot of people spend their whole lives running from God and end up separating themselves forever.

I know what it’s like to live without God and now that I know what it’s like to live with him, I don’t want to go back to where I cam from, that’s for sure.

if you have a desire to return, I definitely think you should look in to it.

hopefully I managed to help in some small way
 
This is interesting. I converted to Catholicism when I was 23, largely by reading Heidegger and his influences. The idea expressed in the beginning of part 2 of Being and Time, that, when Dasein is freed from the distractions of the They (das Mann), it can hear itself call itself to authenticity. That was my first glimpse of transcendence. Later, I read heavily Heidegger’s major Christian influences, Meister Eckhart (especially his Talks of Instruction) and Blaise Pascal (the Pensées). I first believed in God when I read this from Eckhart: ‘If you empty yourself, God has no choice but to fill you.’ Eckhart’s way of putting things may sometimes flirt with heterodoxy, but he has the ability to blow minds, which is what I needed. And then came Dostoyevsky’s ‘Brothers Karamazov’, but that’s a whole other story.

If you’re not careful, you may end up reading your way into faith!

You’re in my prayers.
 
TimothyH said:
You asked for advice. My advice is this.

You are still very young. You have much to learn and much hardship to go through in life. Seek Jesus. Look for Jesus. During those difficult times you are going to need Jesus.

You find Jesus in prayer. You can pray any time you want and there he is, willing to listen and to speak with you, and if you practice physical stillness and interior silence then you might actually hear him at times.

You will find Jesus in Scripture. Make the Bible part of your life. Buy one and make it your prized possession and never go anywhere without it. Make the Scriptures part of who you are. You do that a little at a time, ten minutes each day while you chew your Captain Crunch in the morning, every day for the rest of your life. You will find Jesus there. Trust me on this.

You will find Jesus the Doctor and Jesus the Healer in the confessional. Go. Now. Find a Church, walk in and ask for a priest. Forgiveness is just a small part of confession. Confession is a sacrament of healing. Be healed. Confess.

You will find Jesus your beloved, Jesus your lover, in the Mass and in the Eucharist. Go every day if you can.

You will find Jesus in others. Pray that God sends you a decrepit, broken, dying, wretch. Pray that he sends you someone poor, someone who smells horrible and who lives in a room in a roach infested house in the worst part of town. And drive that guy to the doctor when he needs it, to the store once in a while, give him a couple of bucks, invite him to dinner at your house and tell him how much both you and Jesus love him.

And don’t worry too much about what you believe. Belief isn’t something that happens to you. Belief is a conscious choice. Choose to believe all that God has revealed to us through the Church and ask God for help with the stuff you don’t understand. Choose to accept it all and then don’t worry about it too much.

You will be filled with joy and peace, and when everyone is freaking out over the the crisis of the day, they will ask you how you can smile and be so calm.

That’s my advice.

-Tim-
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This was absolutely beautiful!

PAx
 
Dear OP,

What you describe is fairly common, in my experience. A lot of us struggle with this. We’re young, our families don’t really care where we worship on Sunday mornings, so what’s to stop us from changing, or from quitting all together?

I converted to Eastern Orthodoxy at 15, because my mom wouldn’t let me become Catholic. Then I left for the Episcopal Church because I wanted to experiment with liberal Christianity. I slipped into some kind of agnosticism. Then I went back. Then I left again, because I didn’t like all of the new people who joined while I was away. Then I went back. Then we changed priests and I dropped out for a while. Then I went back again. Finally, to become Catholic, I left for good.

Sometimes, though it doesn’t make sense and there really isn’t a very good reason for it, we have to spend some time away, to spiritually grow in a different environment.

I feared I’d become a lifelong “Church hopper”, but I’ve found my home.

We’re both very young, and we’re still slowly building spiritually stable hearts. I know it’s frustrating to have our minds constantly changing, but don’t worry, we’ll settle down soon enough. Just don’t forget to pray for God’s help, without that we’ll fail.
 
TimothyH said:
And don’t worry too much about what you believe. Belief isn’t something that happens to you. Belief is a conscious choice. Choose to believe all that God has revealed to us through the Church and ask God for help with the stuff you don’t understand. Choose to accept it all and then don’t worry about it too much.
Click to expand...
It took me forever to get this, but this attitude is so important.
 
CharlesdeFoucld said:
This is interesting. I converted to Catholicism when I was 23, largely by reading Heidegger and his influences. The idea expressed in the beginning of part 2 of Being and Time, that, when Dasein is freed from the distractions of the They (das Mann), it can hear itself call itself to authenticity. That was my first glimpse of transcendence. Later, I read heavily Heidegger’s major Christian influences, Meister Eckhart (especially his Talks of Instruction) and Blaise Pascal (the Pensées). I first believed in God when I read this from Eckhart: ‘If you empty yourself, God has no choice but to fill you.’ Eckhart’s way of putting things may sometimes flirt with heterodoxy, but he has the ability to blow minds, which is what I needed. And then came Dostoyevsky’s ‘Brothers Karamazov’, but that’s a whole other story.

If you’re not careful, you may end up reading your way into faith!

You’re in my prayers.
Click to expand...
It’s actually Heidegger who is pushing me back to the Church. I read through “Letter on Humanism” just yesterday and I struck when he implied that being completely emptied of everything but “Being” leaves open the possibility of returning to God in an “authentic” way. Unlike the popular belief, I think all this existential thought can actually lead to profound “truths,” except maybe Sartre who completely misread Heidegger. I know it’s heavily influenced by Buddhism.
 
andyklein said:
This is complicated…

But the simple story is: I converted when I was 19 last year. By the beginning of this year, I transformed into some kind of agnostic/atheist. Now, I think I want to reconvert at 21.

I grew up in a very secular home. I guess I “stumbled?” across Catholicism in my late teens in my attempts either to find meaning or out of my own vanity to ascribe meaning to everything. I probably rushed into it in some sort of childish, romantic view of the world.

After studying philosophy and art and English literature, I was either lured away or I drew myself away from the Church. I thought about the “nothingness” and existentialism and read Foucault, Heidegger, Derrida, Lacan, etc, and came to “realize” how meaningless and absurd everything is. I eventually rejected pretty much “everything,” including art and philosophy and questioned existence (particularly mine) itself.

Absurdity and meaningless got old after a while, but even after I had “destroyed” “everything,” I feel pulled back to the Church, not because of some naïve or idealistic reason like before (I don’t think), but because there is something that gives everything a spark. It certainly doesn’t follow that there is a god now, which is why I still am not sure if I should reconvert.

I’m going to reject any systematic philosophical system as “truth” (but simply particular ways of trying to make sense of the world), and I’m aware of my epistemological bias, but I want to return.

Any advice would be appreciated.
Click to expand...
Praying to the Holy Spirit to give you guidance, direction, strength & fortitude back to the Church.
 
andyklein said:
It’s actually Heidegger who is pushing me back to the Church. I read through “Letter on Humanism” just yesterday and I struck when he implied that being completely emptied of everything but “Being” leaves open the possibility of returning to God in an “authentic” way. Unlike the popular belief, I think all this existential thought can actually lead to profound “truths,” except maybe Sartre who completely misread Heidegger. I know it’s heavily influenced by Buddhism.
Click to expand...
The young Heidegger had wanted to become a Jesuit. I’m convinced that there is a core religious experience in Heidegger, although a lot went wrong in his later thought. I agree that Sartre is a completely different (and less interesting) phenomenon.

Have you ever listened to Hubert Dreyfus’ podcasts? Dreyfus teaches existentialism at UC-Berkeley. As far as I know, he’s a secular Jew, but he’s read the Christian tradition very carefully as a backdrop to existentialism. To him, the core existentialist impulse is to get behind the Greek philosophical world where everything is reasonable, objective and serene and to encounter the concrete Hebrew experience of coming face to face with the living God (interpreted very differently by different thinkers, sometimes religiously and sometimes demythologized).

This primordial existentialist experience is expressed by Pascal in frankly religious terms when he describes his experience: 'God of Abraham, God of Isaac, God of Jacob, Not of the philosophers and scholars.

If you’re interested in listening to Dreyfus’ classes on Kierkegaard, Dostoyevsky and Nietzsche (with a fair amount of Pascal as background), you can find them here. I think he gets Dostoyevsky wrong, but it’s still brilliant and fascinating.

My personal faith journey went backward through the existentialist. I lived according to Nietzsche for some years, which is a terrible way to live. Then to Heidegger, then Pascal and Meister Eckhart, then to the Old Testament and then the New.

Anyway, blessings to you. I don’t think you have to sacrifice anything you’ve learned, just turn it on its head, as it were.
 
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