Immaculate Conception Help!

  • Thread starter Thread starter anrmenchaca74
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
A

anrmenchaca74

Guest
Ok,

I’m a little confused on this topic. Is the Immaculate Conception regarding when Mary conceived Jesus in her womb? Or when her mom conceived her? I was always under the impression of the latter. Please help.🤷
 
Mary was “immaculate”, without the stain of sin, from the moment of her conception in the womb of her Mother, St. Anne.

This doctrine was under sufficient challenge that Pope Pius IX saw fit to infallibly declare it as dogma in the Papal Bull Ineffabilis Deus issued on Dec 8, 1854. December 8 is now the Feast of the Immaculate Conception.

"that the most Blessed Virgin Mary, from the first moment of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege from Almighty God and in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, was kept free of every stain of original sin."

The Immaculate Conception has to do with Mary’s conception, not Jesus’.

-Tim-
 
TimothyH said:
Mary was “immaculate”, without the stain of sin, from the moment of her conception in the womb of her Mother, St. Anne.

This doctrine was under sufficient challenge that Pope Pius IX saw fit to infallibly declare it as dogma in the Papal Bull Ineffabilis Deus issued on Dec 8, 1854. December 8 is now the Feast of the Immaculate Conception.

"that the most Blessed Virgin Mary, from the first moment of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege from Almighty God and in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, was kept free of every stain of original sin."

The Immaculate Conception has to do with Mary’s conception, not Jesus’.

-Tim-
Click to expand...
Thanks…

But, how long was this believed? My understanding was that it was declared in 1854 which brings me to assume that the belief was already held prior to Dec 8, 1854. What other writings are there in which indicate this belief?
 
Mary was sinless. This Catholic dogma is called the Immaculate Conception of Mary. In other words, she was concieved without original sin.

The Immaculate Conception of Mary does not mean that Mary doesn’t need a Savior. Mary herself said:
“And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.” (Luke 1:47)

Jesus is Mary’s savior. She was prevented from falling into original sin by the grace of God. The rest of us are born with original sin and therefore we need Jesus in order to save us from our sinning ways. Mary was saved from God before sinning.
 
anrmenchaca74 said:
Ok,

I’m a little confused on this topic. Is the Immaculate Conception regarding when Mary conceived Jesus in her womb? Or when her mom conceived her? I was always under the impression of the latter. Please help.🤷
Click to expand...
I was confused about this too, when I heard it in RCIA. After reading a bit on it, I asked my husband about it. He converted about 50 yrs ago, but only to get married in the church. (His first marriage). He thought I was totally confused and wrong…It was wonderful to show him what I had found. I taught him something.👍

God bless,
Ruth
 
anrmenchaca74 said:
Thanks…

But, how long was this believed? My understanding was that it was declared in 1854 which brings me to assume that the belief was already held prior to Dec 8, 1854. What other writings are there in which indicate this belief?
Click to expand...
I would simply point you to this excellent article at EWTN.

ewtn.com/faith/teachings/marya2.htm

It does a better job than I can at explaining how the doctrine developed and was challenged to the point where it was declared dogma.

-Tim-
 
God the Father saved Mary from sin. In the same way, Adam and Eve were created without sin. Jesus in the New Adam, and Mary in the New Eve. Mary still had her free will, but she gave her consent to God. Unlike our first parents.

The Ark of the first Covenant was created using instruction from God. It eventually was hidden (1 or 2 Maccabees) and to this day hasn’t been found.

Mary is the fulfillment of that wooden and gold Ark. She is the Ark of the New Covenant (Jesus).
 
The Immaculate Conception is about the Conception of Mary by her mother, St. Anne (or in some translations, St. Anna, St. Ann).

Yes, it is a belief held by Christians long in the past, although there are many other “theories” as to Mary’s sanctity. In the feast of Presentation of Mary in the Temple, we see Mary enter the temple as a child and was already led by the grace of God. This is an old tradition and we see then that Mary has already an abundance of grace from God by then which debunks some theories that Mary was sanctified and filled with grace at a later time of her life (like the Annunciation).
 
Barbkw said:
In the same way, Adam and Eve were created without sin.
Click to expand...
No, its not the same way. Because Mary still is descended from her ancestors whereas Adam and Eve were new creations. This is important because if Mary is a new creation like Adam and Eve, the flesh of Christ has no connection to our own.
 
ConstantineTG said:
No, its not the same way. Because Mary still is descended from her ancestors whereas Adam and Eve were new creations. This is important because if Mary is a new creation like Adam and Eve, the flesh of Christ has no connection to our own.
Click to expand...
I actually was only speaking of the sinless condition of her soul in relationship to the sinless condition of Adam and Eves’ souls prior to their fall.

I’m unclear as to why it would be important to specify that Mary was not a creation and how that impacts whether or not we do or don’t have a connection to Christ.

As adopted sons and daughters of God, why would this matter?
 
Barbkw said:
I actually was only speaking of the sinless condition of her soul in relationship to the sinless condition of Adam and Eves’ souls prior to their fall.

I’m unclear as to why it would be important to specify that Mary was not a creation and how that impacts whether or not we do or don’t have a connection to Christ.

As adopted sons and daughters of God, why would this matter?
Click to expand...
Even so, its not the same. Adam and Eve were created “very good”.

Think of it this way, think of human beings as clay and God had a mold to shape every person. God created the mold and it was perfect. Then he made Adam and Eve from that mold. But when Adam and Eve sinned, the mold was damaged, thus every human being that came into existence afterwards were less than perfect. God did not create a new mold for Mary, she came from the same mold. God only ensured that she came out perfect.

Its important because Mary and also Jesus needs to be part of the human race, our race. Christ took our flesh to save our flesh. If Mary is of a new and different flesh, so is Jesus. Thus what is the point of taking a flesh other than our flesh? How does that save us?
 
Julia_Mae said:
I’m adopted? 😦
Click to expand...
As I understand it, in the Old Testament, a father could deny his natural born son his inheritance.

A father could not deny a son who was adopted. Adopted children had more rights than natural born sons, and could never be denied an inheritance.

It’s good to be adopted. It means that you were not a random child, but that you were chosen.

-Tim-
 
ConstantineTG said:
Even so, its not the same. Adam and Eve were created “very good”.

Think of it this way, think of human beings as clay and God had a mold to shape every person. God created the mold and it was perfect. Then he made Adam and Eve from that mold. But when Adam and Eve sinned, the mold was damaged, thus every human being that came into existence afterwards were less than perfect. God did not create a new mold for Mary, she came from the same mold. God only ensured that she came out perfect.

Its important because Mary and also Jesus needs to be part of the human race, our race. Christ took our flesh to save our flesh. If Mary is of a new and different flesh, so is Jesus. Thus what is the point of taking a flesh other than our flesh? How does that save us?
Click to expand...
Mary is a human being, of course she’s a part of the human race. Flesh is flesh.

Where do you think original sin resides? In the soul, in the flesh or in both?
 
Barbkw said:
Mary is a human being, of course she’s a part of the human race. Flesh is flesh.

Where do you think original sin resides? In the soul, in the flesh or in both?
Click to expand...
Original sin covers up the image of God. It is washed away at Baptism. Then like a painter, the Holy Spirit starts painting the likeness of God over the sketched out image.

Evil and Good cannot coexist in the soul, and so I would venture that when the Holy Spirit enters the soul at Baptism, the Enemy is then evicted and with him original sin.

But I could be wrong. This is an interesting question and something I have been interested in for some time.

-Tim-
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top