Immaculate Conception -- Saved in anticipation of Christ's redemption

[to-the-point]

I’m having some trouble getting my head around the theology that Mary was immaculately conceived in “anticipation of the merits of Christ.” Here’s where I run into trouble: at the Annuciation, what if Mary withheld her fiat; how would that affect the dogma of the Immaculate Conception? Believe me, I mean no disrespect to our Blessed Mother, I’m just trying to understand the theology of the dogma better. Can anyone help me through this?

 

[Jaypeeto3]

This may be circular reasoning,
but being immaculate and wholly devoted to God,
there was no moral possibility within her that she would have
withheld her fiat, her consent to the message of the Angel.

Jaypeeto3 (aka Jaypeeto4)

 

[tee_eff_em]

Here’s where I run into trouble: at the Annuciation, what if Mary withheld her fiat; how would that affect the dogma of the Immaculate Conception?

I have no idea – I don’t find such speculation helpful, I am just happy that it remains in the realm of speculation.

Personally, I don’t find it so surprising that Our Blessed Mother said “yes” when the time came. I find it much more remarkable that she said “no” to every other temptation life offered. After all, aside from being conceived rather than created, was her state all that different from our first parents’?* Adam and Eve indeed were capable to sin. How wonderful that Our Blessed Mother resisted!

(* I ask because I honestly do not know)

tee

 

[John_Henry]

I’m having some trouble getting my head around the theology that Mary was immaculately conceived in “anticipation of the merits of Christ.” Here’s where I run into trouble: at the Annuciation, what if Mary withheld her fiat; how would that affect the dogma of the Immaculate Conception? Believe me, I mean no disrespect to our Blessed Mother, I’m just trying to understand the theology of the dogma better. Can anyone help me through this?

The IC states that the BVM was preserved free from the stain of original sin from the first moment of her conception. This makes it harder for her to have refused to do God’s will, but not impossible. Thus, if she had sinned and refused to do God’s will…well, then the doctrine of the IC would not be affected, as far as I can see. She simply would be guilty of misusing her freedom (as did Eve).

 

[John_Henry]

The IC states that the BVM was preserved free from the stain of original sin from the first moment of her conception. This makes it harder for her to have refused to do God’s will, but not impossible. Thus, if she had sinned and refused to do God’s will…well, then the doctrine of the IC would not be affected, as far as I can see. She simply would be guilty of misusing her freedom (as did Eve).

To elaborate, though, the Church would not have defined any such thing (i.e., the IC) with reference to the BVM if she had not given her Fiat. Indeed, would there have been a Church if she had not given her Fiat? Such is the importance of the BVM and her response at the Annunciation.

 

[to-the-point]

Is it plausible then that prior to the Virgin Mary, there were other women who were immaculately conceived who refused to accept God’s will and bring the Saviour into the world?

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

The IC states that the BVM was preserved free from the stain of original sin from the first moment of her conception. This makes it harder for her to have refused to do God’s will, but not impossible. Thus, if she had sinned and refused to do God’s will…well, then the doctrine of the IC would not be affected, as far as I can see. She simply would be guilty of misusing her freedom (as did Eve).

Well put. This is how I have always understood it. Without the stain of original sin, one does not have the internal inclination to sin. However, it is certainly still possible to sin, as Eve proved, because God gives us our free will.

Mary is like Eve, in that she was ‘created’ without original sin. However, unlike Eve, Mary was completely obedient and never fell from grace.

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

Is it plausible then that prior to the Virgin Mary, there were other women who were immaculately conceived who refused to accept God’s will and bring the Saviour into the world?

I do not think so, personally. God knows what He knows, know what I mean? In other words, God knew precisely when He would come to humanity as God-Man. He knew He wanted to specially prepare a vessel that would be pure and holy. Because God is present in every moment, He already knew who that vessel would be and He knew she would consent. I do not see the necessity of preparing other women as the God Bearer if He knew they would refuse to bring the Savior into the world.

It is hard to wrap a human mind around the fact that God is timeless. The way I see it is that God is present in every time, simultaneously. God is existing now, in this moment, and existing 2000 years ago, and 2000 years in the future all at once. Wow, it makes my brain hurt to contemplate the omnipresence of God.:whacky: