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aball1035
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Since Mary was immaculately concieved, does this mean that she wasn’t able to sin? So was she like a robot, following God’s will? Or was she able, but simply didn’t want to?
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UnusMilitum
Guest
She was saved from receiving the stain of original sin the way we receive it at conception, but just like we sin after we are baptized and have our stain removed, there was always the possibility for Mary to sin as well. As a human she had free will (to do God’s will, or her own). The difference is that she perfectly was able to do the will of God at all times (her ‘fiat’, be it done unto me according to God’s will) in a way that we should all aspire to. “…not I, but Christ living in me”. Her will was always in accord with doing God’s will, not her own (just like her son, who asked to have his chalice taken, but follows it with “but not mine, but Thy will be done”).
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aball1035
Guest
If she was without origional sin, then how could she have sinned at all? Wouldn’t she not be able to?She was saved from receiving the stain of original sin the way we receive it at conception, but just like we sin after we are baptized and have our stain removed, there was always the possibility for Mary to sin as well. As a human she had free will (to do God’s will, or her own). The difference is that she perfectly was able to do the will of God at all times (her ‘fiat’, be it done unto me according to God’s will) in a way that we should all aspire to. “…not I, but Christ living in me”. Her will was always in accord with doing God’s will, not her own (just like her son, who asked to have his chalice taken, but follows it with “but not mine, but Thy will be done”).
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Cledro711
Guest
Im no apologist, but i dont think original sin is the same as sinning in day to day life. idk. someone that knows what theyre laking about should answer lol
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Rawb
Guest
Original Sin is present in all humans from the moment of Conception (except, of course, The Immaculata). It is not the same as Personal Sin, which are sins we commit after the age of reason, but all are born with Original Sin.
However, Mary did have Free Will; she could have chosen to Sin, she just didn’t have that original stain on her soul. She also never chose to sin after she reached the age of reason.
However, Mary did have Free Will; she could have chosen to Sin, she just didn’t have that original stain on her soul. She also never chose to sin after she reached the age of reason.
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UnusMilitum
Guest
Original sin and actual sin are two different things. I didn’t choose to be born with the stain of original sin, but I DO choose to sin when I commit actual sins. Baptism for us washes away the stain of original sin, but we can still sin after baptism. By a special grace Mary’s soul was saved from ever having that stain on it to begin with, but that doesn’t mean she couldn’t have chosen to sin (as a human with free will) if she had wanted to do so.If she was without origional sin, then how could she have sinned at all? Wouldn’t she not be able to?
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YADA
Guest
Adam and Eve were without “Original Sin” … this is the state that we were created for … they walked and talked in relationship with God … the sin of our first parents - in disobedience to God’s command is where "original Sin’ comes from …If she was without origional sin, then how could she have sinned at all? Wouldn’t she not be able to?
The ‘stain’ of original sin is what we inherit as decendents … the pull to turn towrds sin and away from God … concupiscience - is sometimes used to explain it … a desire for ill gotten goods …
Mary [by an act of God] was preserved at her conception from that stain - thus she could pass on her humanity to Jesus free from “sin” … redeeming her before birth in the way we are redeemed by Christ’s atoning sacrifice and through our baptism into a Life in Christ …
Mary - like Adam and Eve - exist in a world … and Mary’s world is the fallen world that resulted from the sin of those first two … she "freely’ chose to stay obedient and in relationship with God … Being “Full of Grace” … [grace is what we receive when we reconcile ourselves to God] …
Enoch is another person who we are told “walked all his days with the Lord” . We also know that Enoch was walking one day and then was no more having been taken upto heaven directly without suffering death … Since God cannot abide with sin [remember Adam and Eve hid from God and walked no longer with Him in the Garden] and death was a result of sin - the presumption is that Enoch did not commit personal sin - inspite of the original stain that was his fate as a human after the fall …
Elijah was taken to heaven in a fiery chariot - porbably without suffering death … Elijah appears with Moses and Jesus on the Mount of Transfiguration … lived a Godly life …
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aball1035
Guest
Couldn’t OT people not go straight to Heaven since Jesus hadn’t come yet? They must have gone to Paradise (don’t know if Paradise is right word).Adam and Eve were without “Original Sin” … this is the state that we were created for … they walked and talked in relationship with God … the sin of our first parents - in disobedience to God’s command is where "original Sin’ comes from …
The ‘stain’ of original sin is what we inherit as decendents … the pull to turn towrds sin and away from God … concupiscience - is sometimes used to explain it … a desire for ill gotten goods …
Mary [by an act of God] was preserved at her conception from that stain - thus she could pass on her humanity to Jesus free from “sin” … redeeming her before birth in the way we are redeemed by Christ’s atoning sacrifice and through our baptism into a Life in Christ …
Mary - like Adam and Eve - exist in a world … and Mary’s world is the fallen world that resulted from the sin of those first two … she "freely’ chose to stay obedient and in relationship with God … Being “Full of Grace” … [grace is what we receive when we reconcile ourselves to God] …
Enoch is another person who we are told “walked all his days with the Lord” . We also know that Enoch was walking one day and then was no more having been taken upto heaven directly without suffering death … Since God cannot abide with sin [remember Adam and Eve hid from God and walked no longer with Him in the Garden] and death was a result of sin - the presumption is that Enoch did not commit personal sin - inspite of the original stain that was his fate as a human after the fall …
Elijah was taken to heaven in a fiery chariot - porbably without suffering death … Elijah appears with Moses and Jesus on the Mount of Transfiguration … lived a Godly life …
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YADA
Guest
Aball, Are you familiar with the Hebrew Scriptures? … This is huge topic in and of its self …Couldn’t OT people not go straight to Heaven since Jesus hadn’t come yet? They must have gone to Paradise (don’t know if Paradise is right word).
Short answer … The usual reference was that they “resided in the Bosom of Abraham” … you an see this idea expressed in the parable Jesus told of Lazarus and the Rich Man [Luke 16] …
and even this - that they went to rest in the ground as if asleep …
One of the contentions between the Sadduces and the Pharisees was that the Sadducees did not believe in an feter life while the Pharisees did …
… Heaven as “Christians” understand it is more like the Pharisees but different …
If I were you I would read some of the OT Scriptural passages that discuss this to get a sense …
Maccabbes - prayers for the dead …
read about Enoch in the Book of Sirach Chapter 44
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