Immodest Dress

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Revert_TSIEG said:
Our parish priest said the same thing about wearing shorts and revealing tops… I mentioned this to my mother in law a hardcore protestant, and she told me, God does not care what I wear when I worship, angrily! I am a believer that in the house of God you should dress appropriately. I am not sure, but it may have something to do with them not believing in the real presence. I am sure if she knew the body of Christ was actually in front of her… her feelings may change!
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I think I see her point: are even the finest clothes you own “appropriate” for being in the real presence of God? Wouldn’t they fall far short of what God truly deserves to have in His presence?

OTOH, I see the other side as well: it’s not the clothes themselves that are important, it’s the respect and veneration, and dressing respectfully can be an outward sign of an attitude toward mass that doesn’t necessarily show direct signs itself. While dressing nattily for church doesn’t guarantee that the person approaches mass with a reverential attitude, a lack of care in dressing (however the person is able) indicates that the reverential attitude isn’t present.

However, in all this, I think it’s important to remember the cautions in Matthew 6; Jesus’ words in the Gospel imply (to me, at least) that there’s a danger in dressing for mass in order to advertise one’s “piety” and “holiness” to the rest of the congregation and the world, rather than out of respect for the mass itself.
 
gearhead said:
I think I see her point: are even the finest clothes you own “appropriate” for being in the real presence of God? Wouldn’t they fall far short of what God truly deserves to have in His presence?

OTOH, I see the other side as well: it’s not the clothes themselves that are important, it’s the respect and veneration, and dressing respectfully can be an outward sign of an attitude toward mass that doesn’t necessarily show direct signs itself. While dressing nattily for church doesn’t guarantee that the person approaches mass with a reverential attitude, a lack of care in dressing (however the person is able) indicates that the reverential attitude isn’t present.

However, in all this, I think it’s important to remember the cautions in Matthew 6; Jesus’ words in the Gospel imply (to me, at least) that there’s a danger in dressing for mass in order to advertise one’s “piety” and “holiness” to the rest of the congregation and the world, rather than out of respect for the mass itself.
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I think what you said is true, but I’ll give the benefit of the doubt to most people. Some are in rags not by design but by necessity. Some are neat not but love of God but by social norms. However, if there is a well form mind with a well form conscience, both the intention of love and clothes should reflect it. Jesus once told the crowds, unless you are more diligent in your faith and your actions then even the scribes and pharisees, you will not step foot into Heaven. [paraphrased from memory.] So outward appearances are not enough, but certainly have its time and place. Since we are to prepare for Mass during the week, it does not seem hard to wear something respectful and modest given that putting on clothes for most would take 5-10 minutes and we have seven days to prepare.

If there is a child that cannot put on clothes well or adults who have mental difficulties with wearing the appropriate attire, then if they are not helped by someone it is no direct fault of their own. At the same time, anyone else should be modest. It’s good practice since we are prepping inside and out for the wedding banquet.
 
gearhead said:
I think I see her point: are even the finest clothes you own “appropriate” for being in the real presence of God? Wouldn’t they fall far short of what God truly deserves to have in His presence?

OTOH, I see the other side as well: it’s not the clothes themselves that are important, it’s the respect and veneration, and dressing respectfully can be an outward sign of an attitude toward mass that doesn’t necessarily show direct signs itself. While dressing nattily for church doesn’t guarantee that the person approaches mass with a reverential attitude, a lack of care in dressing (however the person is able) indicates that the reverential attitude isn’t present.

However, in all this, I think it’s important to remember the cautions in Matthew 6; Jesus’ words in the Gospel imply (to me, at least) that there’s a danger in dressing for mass in order to advertise one’s “piety” and “holiness” to the rest of the congregation and the world, rather than out of respect for the mass itself.
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I understand what you mean… let me set the stage for what I believe is appropriate, and what my in-laws believe is appropriate. Anytime I have gone to church with them, they wear shorts and a t-shirt. I on the other hand used to go to any church with khakis and at least a collared polo shirt. The parish I currently attend accepts the wearing of jeans and a t-shirt. I typically wear jeans and a polo shirt or button up shirt. I know that what you wear does not imply the reverential attitude you wrote of, but if you are in front of our Lord at least make an attempt to show some sort of reverence… to the best of your ability with regards to clothing!
 
Father told me a short time ago, that some of the women at our church particularly have low cut blouses, so it appears that they are flaunting. My impression is that it is pride of their beautiful body.

If you consider the result of the fall of Adam and Eve is concupiscence, which “Christian theology has given it a particular meaning: the movement of the sensitive appetite contrary to the operation of the human reason.” CCC 2515.

So that is why we need temperance, to which modesty belongs. Being temperate demonstrates respect for others.

2524 The forms taken by modesty vary from one culture to another. Everywhere, however, modesty exists as an intuition of the spiritual dignity proper to man. It is born with the awakening consciousness of being a subject. Teaching modesty to children and adolescents means awakening in them respect for the human person.
 
I think that we should be careful of our dress in church so as not to offend the Lord, but also not to lead others into sin. There is a woman in our parish that dresses very “modern” in low cut pants, crop tops with spaghetti straps and everything is very tight and revealing. She sits with her husband and two sons and I pray for the men in our community that they are able not to look at that and have lustful thoughts.
 
So I have seen many threads of this type - how should one dress for mass? should women wear pants? why don’t the young people dress appropriately? etc. I have never injected myself in the conversation until now. So if this goes on for a while, my apologies.

Where is the charity we are called to as Christians? Implicit in every post on this thread and in every other such post on these forums is a judgment of the person’s intentions. “This woman just wants to show off her body.” “This teen doesn’t care about showing respect to God.” We cannot see what is in a person’s heart, and therefore, we ought not to judge their intentions by their dress. It is absolutely laudable for someone to dress for church as they would a job interview. What if they cannot afford it? What if (as one poster already mentioned) they had just left the hospital and had not time to change? There are so many mitigating factors that we should accept people as they come, not as they ought to be. The Church is a “hospital for sinners” not a haven for the holy.

One story my grandmother likes to tell is when she volunteered at her parish’s soup kitchen. Her very first day, she was told the only rule was “Never judge”. The priest explained that if someone came in wearing shabby clothes and smelling of cheap whiskey, you can’t condemn them for that. This could be their only meal for the day. Likewise, if someone came in wearing a suit and tie and looking for a meal, give it to them. They might be on their way to a job interview.

She was serving soup one day and the pastor was talking to the volunteers about how the church needed new doors - the old ones were rotting out. It was going to cost $5000 and he had no idea where the money would come from. An older man stepped out of line and pulled a checkbook out of his pocket. He wrote a check then and there for the full amount. He explained that he had no one to eat lunch with and so he came here for company each day. He had a job and was quite wealthy. So he wanted to give to the church. “Never judge”.

We can get wrapped up in all of the things surrounding us and our faith. Pastors should rightly tell us when we are pushing the limits of taste in church. But it is not for us to determine who gets to come in. That’s the “catholic” part. Everyone - saint & sinner - gets a seat. Maybe that woman in a short skirt and spaghetti straps is a prostitute who has heeded the call for redemption. Maybe that teen in shabby jeans has a soul that is so heavily burdened the only thing he can do is come and be in the presence of God. Chances are, most people are just wearing whatever they have. But I would rather have 99% of people do that and have the 1% who desperately need Christ come in than have people scolded and judged because they don’t have the “correct” clothing.

Never judge.
 
rkrispies, you wrote: “Where is the charity we are called to as Christians?”

Indeed, we cannot determine a person’s sanctity even if their actions are objectively evil.

We could be comitting the sins of detraction or calumny by making a statement about somebody.
 
We could all be naked for all I care about wearing clothes, but I do believe Church is definitely a place to dress modestly. Some people don’t know the difference than dressing up for a party and dressing up for mass. I don’t care what shows otherwise, but please dress up for church.
 
Big Willis, you said “I don’t care what shows otherwise, but please dress up for church”.

But I bet you do care about how people dress outside of church, if you reflect on it, especially if being naked induces others to impure thoughts.

Baltimore Catechism 3:

1278 The fifth commandment can be broken by giving scandal or bad example and inducing others to sin, because such acts may destroy the life of the soul by leading it into mortal sin.

1279 Scandal is any sinful word, deed or omission that disposes others to sin, or lessens their respect for God and holy religion.

1318 Impure thoughts and desires are always sins, unless they displease us and we try to banish them.
 
BernadetteM said:
Just this week my pastor sent all the congregation a little booklet on Immodest dress. The name of the book is Immodest Dress, by Louise Martin.

He said “As your Pastor and for the love I have for God and for your souls, I need to address this subject more than ever before, because as Catholics we have been influenced by the secular fashion of the world”. He went on to say that Our Blessed Mother Mary should be our model and example.

I belong to a very traditional parish that offers both the OF and EF Mass. The Pastor is a very humble man and although strict about Catholic teaching is a most loving person.

He had mentioned the problem of immodesty a few weeks ago, but I guess his words didn’t get through to some of the parishioners.

Has any of your priests ever mentioned dressing appropriately when in a church or attending Mass?

I feel very lucky that our Pastor loves us so much that he would go to all the trouble and cost to inform us how we should present ourselves to our Blessed Savior. Of course he was not speaking about expensive clothes, just be sure to wear clothing that is not provacative in the presence of God.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette
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Yes, usually when the summer season begins or when the weather is getting warm enough to where summer clothing. You should dress modestly, dress like you would if you were meeting the president or Pope. After all this is God’s house and you should dress accordingly. For me a dress shirt, slacks and dress shoes. I don’t sport a tie or suit jacket unless it’s a Holy Day like Christmas or Easter. We don’t have air conditioning in our parish and we don’t have heat in the winter…lol, we have some heat but it’s left over heat from the morning mass!

In fact our pastor just announced now that school season…I mean cold/flue season is upon us; if your coughing, sneezing or otherwise sick to stay home and get well instead of coming to church and getting everyone else sick. I was kind of surprised by this but it makes very good sense.
 
Big_Willis said:
We could all be naked for all I care about wearing clothes, but I do believe Church is definitely a place to dress modestly. Some people don’t know the difference than dressing up for a party and dressing up for mass. I don’t care what shows otherwise, but please dress up for church.
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Here’s the problem I see with this statement: dressing up and dressing modestly are two very different things that people here tend to mix. Dressing up is wearing your best. Dressing modestly is wearing clothes that do not flaunt your body and become an occasion of sin for others.

I don’t care about whether or not people dress up for Mass. As long as they are dressed modestly, let people wear jeans and sneakers. If that’s how they want to present themselves to the Lord, who are we to interfere?

My problem lies with the shirts, skirts, pants etc. that show way too much body. I do my very best to ignore them but I am a man and I’m weak. I shouldn’t have to feel like I’m fighting something when I go to Mass. If it takes a sports jersey to cover that stuff up, wear the darn jersey! I’d rather see a jersey with “McNabb” and a big “5” under it (go Eagles!) than your cleavage. Especially at Mass.
 
After converting I always remember being shocked by a reader at mass wearing a famous band’s shirt. I won’t say what was on it.
 
Personally, while I agree that modesty of dress is important. Participation in mass is more important especially for my age group. 17-26.

For that reason, I think overlooking dress is something justifiable.
 
I would hope that the last thing the creator of the universe would care about is how one is dressed. This is more of a societal convention, which is fine… but perhaps it should be kept in it’s own context.

What is in one’s heart is another matter, but everyone seems to want to decide for themselves what’s in the heart of another. That’s up to you, I guess, but I would recommend Mark 2:23-28 on this subject.

It’s a matter of, “where’s your focus?”
 
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