Immodest position

[DrPiano]

LSIP,
You raise some good points here.
But I think we are getting too sidetracked in the specifics of just what she was wearing, and the postion. And we are missing the more specific point about her pang of conscience and her deliberate rejection of that pang.

So let’s forget about exactly what she was wearing and exactly how she was sitting etc and look at her own admission. In the OP she clearly says…
I wondered if this position, which really draws attention to my upper body, could cause a young man walking by to stumble. However, I thought, "I don’t really care; it’s their problem; I don’t feel like moving–and anyways, maybe they won’t stumble." I am quite sure that this thought was a mortal sin.
The Holy Spirit, prompted her that what she was doing was maybe not such a good idea.
The Loving response to this prompting would have been to move.
Her admitted response was one of rejection and selfishness. “I don’t care”…“I’t their problem”…“I don’t feel like moving”.
These are serious issues that cover two out of three of the requirements fro mortal sin. Knowledge and consent. The prompting stems from her own knowldge of what she was wearing, and sitting and what was “exposed”. Her consent is evident in her selfish refusal to move and her comment “I don’t care”…
This only leaves whether it was “Grave matter”. This we cannot know…but in my view it is serious enough to warrant talking to her confessor about.

So - in all of this, we should not be distracted by the details but get to the core, not of what others might do, but rather of what she freely admits she did do.

Should this girl be ashamed of her body? Absolutely not.
Should she take appropriate and charitable action when prompted by the Holy spirit? Absolutely YES.

Peace
James

To which I would add, going to confession would put her in a place for a priest to help her form her conscience about whether this is grave matter or not.

I agree though (and did earlier) - because she had a pang of conscience and ignored it deliberately, she ought to go to confession and allow her confessor to help sort out the gravity of the situation.

And in a bit of defense of Tiberius (to whom I happened to be married) he doesn’t at all expect women to be ashamed of their bodies. I neither wear a burqua or wear frumpy clothes. I know in his mind (he’s still asleep right now), he was thinking of women who purposely show cleavage or purposely wear shirts that are too short/pants cut very low/high cut shorts/skin tight clothing. I wear very stylish clothing, but I don’t wear things that dip so low that you can see cleavage (I used to) in public. I know now, after getting to know my husband that things like that were/are a real temptation to him (at home it doesn’t matter because … well… we’re married ). There’s a difference between dressing nicely and dressing to purposely attract men to a specific area (and sometimes that’s as easy as a camisole).

 

[JRKH]

To which I would add, going to confession would put her in a place for a priest to help her form her conscience about whether this is grave matter or not.

I agree though (and did earlier) - because she had a pang of conscience and ignored it deliberately, she ought to go to confession and allow her confessor to help sort out the gravity of the situation.

Amen…

And in a bit of defense of Tiberius (to whom I happened to be married) he doesn’t at all expect women to be ashamed of their bodies. I neither wear a burqua or wear frumpy clothes. I know in his mind (he’s still asleep right now), he was thinking of women who purposely show cleavage or purposely wear shirts that are too short/pants cut very low/high cut shorts/skin tight clothing. I wear very stylish clothing, but I don’t wear things that dip so low that you can see cleavage (I used to) in public. I know now, after getting to know my husband that things like that were/are a real temptation to him (at home it doesn’t matter because … well… we’re married ). There’s a difference between dressing nicely and dressing to purposely attract men to a specific area (and sometimes that’s as easy as a camisole).

I think too that there is another direction that this could go…clothes being too loose.
I’ve been in situations where a girl was wearing a loose fitting shirt with a wide neckline and if she bent over while standing, you could see right down to whatever…
Same with short sleeves on an oversize shirt…

So - clothes that are too big and loose fitting can be a problem as well.

Finally you are right about dressing at home…
I once heard a muslim woamn talking about attending one of those home fashion shows, nighties and make-up and such. She was being asked about how they are supposed to be so modest in their dress. She replied, “In public yes…dress should be very modest. But at home, in private, it’s different.”

Peace
James

 

[DrPiano]

I think too that there is another direction that this could go…clothes being too loose. I’ve been in situations where a girl was wearing a loose fitting shirt with a wide neckline and if she bent over while standing, you could see right down to whatever… Same with short sleeves on an oversize shirt…

So - clothes that are too big and loose fitting can be a problem as well.

Hey James, good point It doesn’t seem to be as frequent a problem in our society but it does happen. As a woman I think its important to keep my brothers in mind when I’m choosing my clothing. I’m not at all ashamed of my body (as a previous poster suggested) but I am aware of making sure that I’m not unduly tempting them.

In a way, I’ve always been aware of my brothers’ thoughts. It just happened that previously my intent was quite the opposite. I dressed to attract attention, I’m sad to say. And it took a very loving man in my life saying “hey, when people do that it’s really hard for me - I do my best but it’s really hard for me” to rethink my attitude.