Immorality and unrealistic expectations in social teaching

[ynotzap]

A Christian life is a great challenge and It can not accomplish it’s goals without supernatural help. This help is real, and the challenge is super-rewarding. To answer your questions referring to the secular way of life can never supply adequate answers. To remain faithful to Catholic Christian beliefs means to live as Christ would have us live. We accept the Church’s teachings, but I can not speak for all Catholics. Some are not completely obedient and I refrain from judging them. One’s Christian life depends on his relationship with Christ. It it is one of real love, then what alternative does one have, except to do as He would desire you to do. In this way you prove your love for God. In so doing many challenges have to be faced. The giving of one’s self in love for others is the condition that proves we love God.
Also to trust in God, that if you do what He desires for you, that He will take care of you in your needs, we have to love enough to trust Him. As I stated, we need supernatural help, and without it we will not succeed.
My wife’s sister,now 80yrs old(still teaching children how to swim) had l0 children. Every time she had a child, her husband asked for a raise. About the 5th child, he was told by his boss, that he couldn’t afford him. So the husband set up his own architectural business at home. He worked hard just to make it, but he made it. The children now have children of their own. Now their mother and father travel the states to visit them. They have grand family reunions. Their mother had to endure comments like “she is a baby factory”, and I had to remind her that she was really doing something pleasing to God. Her husband has outlived his brothers who all had heart attacks. He as of late had one, he is also 80. I often think when his life is over what a great future he will have in his and her relationship with God. God doesn’t expect us to take leave of our minds and just keep having babies, but to exercise reason in our choices, but always give God the benefit of the doubt. What are our goals in life? The saying applies, “You treasure is where your heart is” So one’s perspective of life will determine the life he will live. For a Christian who is sincere, his mind dwells on higher things, an eternity with God in complete love and happiness

 

[RedFox0456]

A Christian life is a great challenge and It can not accomplish it’s goals without supernatural help. This help is real, and the challenge is super-rewarding. To answer your questions referring to the secular way of life can never supply adequate answers. To remain faithful to Catholic Christian beliefs means to live as Christ would have us live. We accept the Church’s teachings, but I can not speak for all Catholics. Some are not completely obedient and I refrain from judging them. One’s Christian life depends on his relationship with Christ. It it is one of real love, then what alternative does one have, except to do as He would desire you to do. In this way you prove your love for God. In so doing many challenges have to be faced. The giving of one’s self in love for others is the condition that proves we love God.
Also to trust in God, that if you do what He desires for you, that He will take care of you in your needs, we have to love enough to trust Him. As I stated, we need supernatural help, and without it we will not succeed.
My wife’s sister,now 80yrs old(still teaching children how to swim) had l0 children. Every time she had a child, her husband asked for a raise. About the 5th child, he was told by his boss, that he couldn’t afford him. So the husband set up his own architectural business at home. He worked hard just to make it, but he made it. The children now have children of their own. Now their mother and father travel the states to visit them. They have grand family reunions. Their mother had to endure comments like “she is a baby factory”, and I had to remind her that she was really doing something pleasing to God. Her husband has outlived his brothers who all had heart attacks. He as of late had one, he is also 80. I often think when his life is over what a great future he will have in his and her relationship with God. God doesn’t expect us to take leave of our minds and just keep having babies, but to exercise reason in our choices, but always give God the benefit of the doubt. What are our goals in life? The saying applies, “You treasure is where your heart is” So one’s perspective of life will determine the life he will live. For a Christian who is sincere, his mind dwells on higher things, an eternity with God in complete love and happiness

I like this. Thank you.

 

[Abu]

Valiente88 #19
Who does indeed, and why especially the Catholic Church, an organization with a less than stellar track record?
Several areas the Catholic Church has ruled on have no biblical basis for their refusal (such as IVF), instead it’s crafted a rule set from rather loose vague interpretations of biblical passages addressing very different (often cultural) issues often more a matter of ancient culture than faith and traditions which don’t always go that far back.

The cardinal and repetitive errors are:

1. To confuse the mistakes and sinfulness of even popes against the reality that doctrine is protected from error by God the Son in Jesus Christ, and therefore defines what is sinful and what is not.
2. To fail to accept the truth by erroneously fabricating that “no biblical basis” reinforces the reality that God the Son gave us His Church to teach His truths and wrote nothing Himself.
3. To,fall to realise that She collected the Sacred Scriptures of the New Testament written by Her Apostles and saints, and by Her authority and no one else, through the Holy Spirit, declared them to be the Word of God – only She can interpret the Scriptures correctly.
4. To fail to realise that the miracle of the Sun at Fatima attested by anti-Catholics reinforces the truths of Catholicism.
5. To fail to realise that the miracles at Lourdes attested by doctors also reinforce the truths of Catholicism.

 

[Valiente88]

The cardinal and repetitive errors are:

1. To confuse the mistakes and sinfulness of even popes against the reality that doctrine is protected from error by God the Son in Jesus Christ, and therefore defines what is sinful and what is not.

But the Pope clearly is capable of falling into error, unless you would like to explain to me how Innocent III’s proclamation that Democracy (as defined by the Magna carta at the time) was an abomination and he was the one true ruler of mankind and Pope Stevens VII’s “Cadaver Synod” were in any way legitimate and the will of Christ. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadaver_Synod

At which point did Christ say it was holy and good to dig up corpses and defile them in the Lateran. Please, do share that passage with me.

1. To fail to accept the truth by erroneously fabricating that “no biblical basis” reinforces the reality that God the Son gave us His Church to teach His truths and wrote nothing Himself.

Again, how can Christ have taught a truth that wouldn’t exist for another two millenia? Would you look back to British Pre-Roman Druids for a guide to fix a lightbulb? Of course not!

1. To,fall to realise that She collected the Sacred Scriptures of the New Testament written by Her Apostles and saints, and by Her authority and no one else, through the Holy Spirit, declared them to be the Word of God – only She can interpret the Scriptures correctly.

Again, even Christians can’t agree on this one, even the Orthodox would and have at times argued this to the death.

The Othodox claim to be moved by the holy spirit, so do the Anglicans, the Methodists, the Exclusive Brethren, the Quakers…This holy spirit sure gets around!

1. To fail to realise that the miracle of the Sun at Fatima attested by anti-Catholics reinforces the truths of Catholicism.

The Miricle of the Sun can and has been explained in purely materialist terms through a combination of mas hysteria and a solar event predicted for that day.

If I am to accept Fatima as a Miracle purely on testimony, then surely you must also accept the eye witness testimony that Muhammad ascended into heaven, that Joseph Smith presented a set of gold plates to a crowd fo six detailing a new revelation from God or that Kim Jong Ill could fly, read minds and raise the dead (yes, this has been claimed).

1. To fail to realise that the miracles at Lourdes attested by doctors also reinforce the truths of Catholicism.

I think Lourdes is a pure sham designed to provide “proof” for Papal Supremacy, and I’ll happily write a new thread as to why if you like.

 

[Valiente88]

A Christian life is a great challenge and It can not accomplish it’s goals without supernatural help. This help is real, and the challenge is super-rewarding.

But why would he ask us to destroy parts of the world (like the overpopulation in Africa is doing) and then ask us to ask him to put it right? Why not just fix the problem or prevent it?

To answer your questions referring to the secular way of life can never supply adequate answers. To remain faithful to Catholic Christian beliefs means to live as Christ would have us live. We accept the Church’s teachings, but I can not speak for all Catholics. Some are not completely obedient and I refrain from judging them. One’s Christian life depends on his relationship with Christ. It it is one of real love, then what alternative does one have, except to do as He would desire you to do.

You touch upon a very, very sensitive topic there, and I would answer it with a very extensive lecture I wrote for a university debate once but I fear it would offend too many and I might get banned.

Suffice it to say this does nothing to paint Christ as love, rather it makes him appear as a rather irritable Roman Emperor; Love me or burn!

Love is mercy, love is compassion. It most certainly isn’t threats of pain, death and damnation.

In this way you prove your love for God. In so doing many challenges have to be faced. The giving of one’s self in love for others is the condition that proves we love God.
Also to trust in God, that if you do what He desires for you, that He will take care of you in your needs, we have to love enough to trust Him. As I stated, we need supernatural help, and without it we will not succeed.

I can’t really say much again, half of the problems in the world seem to be of our own doing, and ones like AIDS in Africa or Overpopulation could be swiftly fixed were it not for religious opposition.

My wife’s sister,now 80yrs old(still teaching children how to swim) had l0 children. Every time she had a child, her husband asked for a raise. About the 5th child, he was told by his boss, that he couldn’t afford him. So the husband set up his own architectural business at home. He worked hard just to make it, but he made it.

And what about those men and women who aren’t paticually bright or who work at McDonalds or other jobs like cleaning which often pay below the minimum wage?

Like my grandmother once said to her Catholic Husband; “Soon as God dumps another wageslip on my door, is the moment I’ll consider having more children”.

The children now have children of their own. Now their mother and father travel the states to visit them. They have grand family reunions. Their mother had to endure comments like “she is a baby factory”, and I had to remind her that she was really doing something pleasing to God. Her husband has outlived his brothers who all had heart attacks. He as of late had one, he is also 80. I often think when his life is over what a great future he will have in his and her relationship with God. God doesn’t expect us to take leave of our minds and just keep having babies, but to exercise reason in our choices, but always give God the benefit of the doubt. What are our goals in life? The saying applies, “You treasure is where your heart is” So one’s perspective of life will determine the life he will live. For a Christian who is sincere, his mind dwells on higher things, an eternity with God in complete love and happiness

It’s a nice example, but again not everyone is that wealthy or lucky. It’s a standard the average individual simply can’t reach without a lottery win.

I’m lucky in that I have the financial resources to support five children, but I know several families who struggle to maintain one or two. A third would push them below the poverty line into starvation. Tell me, is bringing children into the world to starve to death the will of God?

 

[ynotzap]

When I said that we can not meet the challenge of a christian life with-out super-natural help, I made a statement that all Christians believe. And living life manifests that truth. You see we are aware of evil forces operating in this world that have a very powerful influence on man’s behavior. I don’t expect you to believe this, as this is contained in our Faith. We believe that Jesus Christ is the Savior of mankind. He came to redeem us from the works and influence of Satan, a fallen angel, that rebelled against God. He strives to destroy mankind, and prevent it’s union with God. We believe that Jesus did not come to condemn mankind, but to redeem it from these evil forces that control the actions of men. Now I know this may be hard to understand , but in my life-time I have experienced this truth in a profound way. Yes I experienced this evil first hand, I was even moved physically, and experienced this spiritual presence in a profound way, not only that but others did too, intelligent people.
I can not give you my experiences, but only share them. They are very consistent with my Catholic Faith.and reality

The evil that you speak of in the world happens in every generation. There is wealth in this world to help people, but greed and selfishness is in control of men. Men are capable of living in peace, but hatred is in control. We are capable of compassion, and understanding, but indifference, and ignorance are in control. We are capable of a chaste life enjoying the pleasures of sex and even sanctifying it, but lust is in control. We are capable of increased understanding, but worldliness and dissipation and materialism are in control. Wars and rumors of war keep going on. Poor humanity, it tries so hard to produce it’s own saviors but still fails. they don’t really understand what they are dealing with. We can not deal with a spiritual problem in a secular way, to do so is to go around the problem, and accomplish nothing, any success is transient. Faith in Catholic Christianity is a gift, not one of reason, nor is it in conflict with reason, but actually reinforces reason. It is divine revelation. We are not fighting flesh and blood, but powers and principalities, and there is only one solution to winning the battle, Jesus Christ. We must have a personal encounter with Jesus, when this happens our intellectual vision will become clear.

 

[Abu]

Unless and until those making erroneous fabrications come to accept and understand that popes are infallible only when defining dogma and doctrine, and not otherwise, so long will all sorts of spurious feelings flourish, that Christ has erred.

Failing again to realise that the Canon of Sacred Scripture was established first by Pope Damasus at a Council of Rome in 382, confirmed at the Councils of Hippo, 393, Carthage III 397, Carthage IV in 419 and canonised at the Council of Trent (1545-1563) – 46 books in the Old Testament, 27 books in the New Testament, sustains the lack of knowledge of history already displayed so lamentably.

Since the miracle at Fatima also included the miraculous immediate drying of clothing after torrential drenching, with no heat involved – all attempts to ridicule it merely display the desperate attempts to escape reality.

Valiente88 #24
I think Lourdes is a pure sham designed to provide “proof” for Papal Supremacy,

The reality has everything to do with Jesus the Christ manifesting His power through His Church.

Throughout much of his adult life Dr Alexis Carrel felt that Immanuel Kant had once and for all disposed of a rationally respectable belief in God, revelation, and – last but not least – miracles.

He went from being a skeptic of the visions and miracles reported at Lourdes to being a believer after experiencing a healing he could not explain. Alexis Carrel refused to discount a supernatural explanation and steadfastly reiterated his beliefs, For such an attitude toward Lourdes, Carrel was declared unwelcome in the medical establishment in free-thinking and anti-clerical Lyons. Their leaders had to eat humble pie upon Carrel’s return for a brief visit to France in 1912 with the halo of a Nobel Prize around his head. In a new edition by Real-View-Books, of *The Voyage to Lourdes *(1939) this realization is explained, with an introduction by Fr Stanley Jaki, winner of the Templeton Prize for 1987 for his work on science and religion, an honorary member of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences.
[ewtn.com/library/MARY/VOYLOUR.HTM]](http://www.ewtn.com/library/MARY/VOYLOUR.HTM])

The multitude of saints, the humanly inexplicable events at Fatima, recorded in disbelief but truthfully by journalists, the medically examined cures at Lourdes – miracles – all have to be doubted in the mad rush to evade reality.

The reasonable pay attention to that great convert John Henry Cardinal Newman: With an unhealthy doubt, “a person suspends judgment even when the evidence is conclusive and completely adequate. This is skepticism, intellectual cowardice……A difficulty is a problem, a not-seeing how two realities fit together….a situation we do not yet understand and perhaps will never understand. It is a limitation on our knowledge, a passing or permanent limitation.”