Immortality of the Soul

[greylorn]

The soul, whatever it may be, is allegedly created by God at the time of human conception, whereupon it lives forever, as immortal as God Himself. How can that be?

How can an omnipotent God create something which He cannot eradicate?

 

[Victorious]

The soul, whatever it may be, is allegedly created by God at the time of human conception, whereupon it lives forever, as immortal as God Himself. How can that be?

Because He wills it.

How can an omnipotent God create something which He cannot eradicate?

Because He does not will it.

 

[tonyrey]

God is not only omnipotent but infinite Love… and love entails willingness to make a sacrifice for the beloved. He chooses to sacrifice His omnipotence so that we too have the power to love.

 

[buffalo]

Catholics understand God to be “almighty” meaning He does what He sets out to do.

There are some things He cannot do:

He cannot lie
He cannot sin
He cannot be deceived

 

[vz71]

The soul, whatever it may be, is allegedly created by God at the time of human conception, whereupon it lives forever, as immortal as God Himself. How can that be?

How can an omnipotent God create something which He cannot eradicate?

It can be because God made us that way.

Because God has already decided that the soul will be immortal.
God cannot go back on his word.
Once God decided upon the immortality of our souls, that is it…the end.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

The soul, whatever it may be, is allegedly created by God at the time of human conception, whereupon it lives forever, as immortal as God Himself. How can that be?

How can an omnipotent God create something which He cannot eradicate?

I think it is not that He cannot eradicate the soul, but that He will not. He creates it with an eternal commitment to maintaining it.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

I think it is not that He cannot eradicate the soul, but that He will not. He creates it with an eternal commitment to maintaining it.

I’ll second that.

 

[vz71]

I think it is not that He cannot eradicate the soul, but that He will not. He creates it with an eternal commitment to maintaining it.

True enough, but with the perfect commitment that God gives, wouldn’t the proper word now be ‘cannot’?

 

[greylorn]

Because He wills it.

Because He does not will it.

The ability to answer any relevant question with one of two answers must free up a lot of time for watching TV. Wish I’d have figured that out years ago. Thanks for the enlightenment.

I had to check, and yep, I’m posting to a thread in the philosophy forum. I could not find a dogma forum, so cannot tell you exactly where to put your thoughtful replies.

 

[greylorn]

I think it is not that He cannot eradicate the soul, but that He will not. He creates it with an eternal commitment to maintaining it.

I’ve heard that argument and its variations more times than I care to count.

It rests not upon any biblical text or, to my knowledge, any explicitly defined Catholic philosophy, but upon your personal opinion. You, a human being with finite intelligence and knowledge, presumes to declare how a being with infinite intelligence makes choices.

Do you have personal insights into God’s mind?

Or, did you just make this argument up to justify your beliefs?

 

[greylorn]

It can be because God made us that way.

Because God has already decided that the soul will be immortal.
God cannot go back on his word.
Once God decided upon the immortality of our souls, that is it…the end.

Should you ever care to investigate the roots of your beliefs, you may be surprised to find that humans invented the concept of the immortal soul. not God.

A perusal of the Old Testament shows several instances in which God has changed His mind. Personally, I find this a good thing, since I prefer to believe that God has a mind, and know from dealing with many individuals who’ve kept a death grip on their beliefs, that a mental mechanism which does not change is unworthy of being called a “mind.”

 

[Benadam]

The soul, whatever it may be, is allegedly created by God at the time of human conception, whereupon it lives forever, as immortal as God Himself. How can that be?

How can an omnipotent God create something which He cannot eradicate?

God works within the order He established in the beginning. At first glance it seems to set up a paradox that directly opposes omnipotence.

God’s power is revealed when it operates in the least of power
God’s omniscience is revealed in the least of the wise
God’s omnipresence is revealed where it seems He can’t be.

If God didn’t work within the order He established then how could the order glorify Omnibenevolence? Creation would not glorify God

How could the order He established glorify omniscience? Creation would not glorify God.

How could creation glorify omnipresence if God worked outside of the order He established in the beginning?

God’s power isn’t glorified in impressive shows designed to awe us into recognizing His power, knowledge, goodness or all encompassing presence.

The greatness of God can’t be quantified by any means but His omnipotence is revealed in the fullness appropriate to us. God’s power is manifest when He wills mighty things that happen through things that are least endowed with power.

God made your soul immortal if it were irradicated even by Himself then He really didn’t make it immortal did He?

 

[greylorn]

God is not only omnipotent but infinite Love… and love entails willingness to make a sacrifice for the beloved. He chooses to sacrifice His omnipotence so that we too have the power to love.

That all sounds really nice, and lovely, and mollifying.

However, your reply, if true, implies that God is an entity who chose to create and love a few billion incompetent, stupid little needy machines running needy programs who cannot follow his most basic rules, and have nothing whatsoever to contribute to the greater universe.

Imagine the president of a robot company who fell in love with the stupidest, most ineffective robots his assembly lines turned out, but who condemned the worst of them not to the scrap heap, but to a specially designed torture chamber where they are to be kept alive forever and subjected to the most annoying electromagnetic (name removed by moderator)ut he could devise, just for behaving exactly the way he programmed them to behave instead of the way he told them to behave. .

Imagine the same robot master so in love with his bots that, for the few of them which obeyed orders, he built a special place where they can live forever in perfect comfort, doing nothing whatsoever to contribute to their continued existence, their only job being to kow-tow to and worship the master whenever he enters their room.

In real life, there would be a race between the robot master’s heirs and his corporate stockholders to see which could have him declared incompetent first. The master would lose

While the dogmatic will imagine that these remarks impugn the quality and motivations of God, the occasional perspicacious individual will recognize that I am doing my best to challenge the attributes, properties, and motivations which human beings, in the arrogance of the ignorant, have assigned to God, and in their overweening need to be right, had the further arrogance to declare were inspired by God Himself.

I will not insult the Creator, but will freely question every silly, needful notion about His properties and motivations which ignorant humans have invented, and which people who should know better insist upon perpetrating.

 

[Benadam]

Should you ever care to investigate the roots of your beliefs, you may be surprised to find that humans invented the concept of the immortal soul. not God.

A perusal of the Old Testament shows several instances in which God has changed His mind. Personally, I find this a good thing, since I prefer to believe that God has a mind, and know from dealing with many individuals who’ve kept a death grip on their beliefs, that a mental mechanism which does not change is unworthy of being called a “mind.”

You can’t change your mind more than God because God is eternal immoveable, unchangeable.

 

[Dameedna]

The soul, whatever it may be, is allegedly created by God at the time of human conception, whereupon it lives forever, as immortal as God Himself. How can that be?

How can an omnipotent God create something which He cannot eradicate?

He could eradicate it. He just chooses not too (hypothetically speaking)

There was a great book(fiction) that I read recently called the book of joby. It is a interpretation of the book of Job.

The ending was so funny to me, but I won’t go into the details, but it fits this topic very well. Basically, the “devil” was trying to win a wager, where the ultimate achievement for the devil, was that all creation would be eradicated, and then reformed by the devils choosing.

God never worried about the wager. Because by granting the 'devil" his request, the devil would no longer exist and no longer be around to demand his own world.

And then Gabriel asks" So you would have gotten rid of creation, for the sake of a Bet?"

And God say’s “Yes, because I would be true to the bet. Of course I’d just recreate everything exactly as it was…no harm no foul”.

 

[vz71]

Should you ever care to investigate the roots of your beliefs, you may be surprised to find that humans invented the concept of the immortal soul. not God.

I have.
There is plenty enough reference to eternal life within the bible and oral tradition to convince me.

 

[grannymh]

The soul, whatever it may be, is allegedly created by God at the time of human conception, whereupon it lives forever, as immortal as God Himself. How can that be?

How can an omnipotent God create something which He cannot eradicate?

Speaking of philosophical ideas.

Where did your idea that God would eradicate a soul come from?

 

[tonyrey]

That all sounds really nice, and lovely, and mollifying.

The truth is not always or necessarily harsh and unpleasant!

However, your reply, if true, implies that God is an entity who chose to create and love a few billion incompetent, stupid little needy machines running needy programs who cannot follow his most basic rules, and have nothing whatsoever to contribute to the greater universe.

Don’t forget you are one of these items! It is not self-evident that they (we) are machines or that the vast majority are stupid or incompetent or that they all know his rules or have nothing whatsoever to contribute!
As we get older we need to resist the temptation to become cynical and adopt a jaundiced view of humanity…

Imagine the president of a robot company who fell in love with the stupidest, most ineffective robots his assembly lines turned out, but who condemned the worst of them not to the scrap heap, but to a specially designed torture chamber where they are to be kept alive forever and subjected to the most annoying electromagnetic (name removed by moderator)ut he could devise, just for behaving exactly the way he programmed them to behave instead of the way he told them to behave. .

An amusing fantasy but it has nothing to do with Christianity.

Imagine the same robot master so in love with his bots that, for the few of them which obeyed orders, he built a special place where they can live forever in perfect comfort, doing nothing whatsoever to contribute to their continued existence, their only job being to kow-tow to and worship the master whenever he enters their room.

ditto!

In real life, there would be a race between the robot master’s heirs and his corporate stockholders to see which could have him declared incompetent first. The master would lose.

The master does lose as far as some are concerned. They certainly reject him…

While the dogmatic will imagine that these remarks impugn the quality and motivations of God, the occasional perspicacious individual will recognize that I am doing my best to challenge the attributes, properties, and motivations which human beings, in the arrogance of the ignorant, have assigned to God, and in their overweening need to be right, had the further arrogance to declare were inspired by God Himself.

The question arises as to how you can be sure that your interpretation of God is superior to other interpretations. You are fully entitled to your opinion but I’m sure you don’t claim to be infallible any more than I do. When all is said and done we have believe what seems true, hope for the best and love ourselves and others.

I will not insult the Creator, but will freely question every silly, needful notion about His properties and motivations which ignorant humans have invented, and which people who should know better insist upon perpetrating.

You would not be worth your salt if you didn’t but don’t underestimate the capacity of even the humblest person. One of the wisest men I ever met was an uneducated Cuban gardener…

 

[geometer]

The soul, whatever it may be, is allegedly created by God at the time of human conception, whereupon it lives forever, as immortal as God Himself. How can that be?

How can an omnipotent God create something which He cannot eradicate?

Well, the immortality of the soul means that the soul survives death of the body. God can annihilate anyone at any time and also recreate them. God can uncreate your soul.

 

[Victorious]

The ability to answer any relevant question with one of two answers must free up a lot of time for watching TV. Wish I’d have figured that out years ago. Thanks for the enlightenment.

I had to check, and yep, I’m posting to a thread in the philosophy forum. I could not find a dogma forum, so cannot tell you exactly where to put your thoughtful replies.

Some things really are that simple. I’m sorry you’d rather make things harder for yourself than they need to be, and be snotty and rude about it into the bargain.