in my own head, i finally solved faith vs works...

[osddso]

at first i really didnt like the idea of the catholic church wanting to unify all of christianity…i thought “we are the unified church” if they dont want to be part of us, then fine with me…

but now i see his approach more clearly. i was just watching ewtn and i saw the popes monthly prayer for all christians to use social means of communication to unify.

and now i look at it something i preached but never practiced. we are all on the same team. and it makes sense.

i came back to the catholic church after 12 years. i had many questions about why pray to mary? why go to confession? etc. but instead of asking a born again, or a protestant these questions about a catholic church, i asked catholics. and the answers i got made sense. there was no need for me to convert to another denomination because i personally agree with everything the church basis its view on (now sometimes i dont understand why some do what they do, eventhough the fundamental catholic teaching are different…but thats how it is with ever denomination).

but what i want to bring to attention is something that seperates us so much, but in reality is something that should bring us together.

i asked a born again, a baptist, a protestant and used my own catholic belief. if i left anyone out im sorry. certain denominations i cant take too seriously. i know that sounds close minded, haha but if i listed those i cant take seriously you might agree with me.
**
my catholic belief is this:**
faith is lovely…so is grace.
without faith one cant have grace.
without grace one cant have faith.
how can one have faith but not be inspired by grace to do good deed from the heart.
if you have faith, one will do and serve God, with grace towards others, without even knowing they are doing it because its just a natural lifestyle.

i asked a protestant about faith vs. works:
just like i think its wrong when a southern baptist preachers speaks out against the catholic church, not knowing their head from their a* about catholic faith, i also think it is wrong for a catholic to speak out against a baptist when they know nothing about that denomination…so i asked a protestant! God bless common sense!* they gave me the run down of the protestant work ethic. and i asked them: are you doing good deeds because you want to get into heaven or because its in your heart to do it? and they replied, if you have faith, the gift of grace you will do good deeds from the heart. if you just do good deeds to get into heaven, you really have no faith. the work ethic is not about doing good deeds just to get into heaven, its about acting on the grace God gave us that feels natural to do. Your faith is what saves you, grace is the gift God gave us andis a way to show you have faith i agree thats is the same thing i believe only in different words

tried to ask a born again about faith vs. works
well i tried to ask my dads fiance about faith vs. works. all she said was grace is a gift from God, because you believe and have faith that is good enough. it was like pulling teeth. i guess thats what born agains believe?

but when i think about it, most born again’s (minus the ones who hate the catholic faith) do the works of God without even knowing it. they believe, and because they believe and have faith, they arent even aware they are using the gift of grace God gave us.

satan believes in God, is he going to heaven? nooooooo. because he has no grace.


so i feel a lot more at peace, because when you look at everything for what it is, we all believe the same thing, we explain it or show it, knowingly show or not knowingly show it!

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

at first i really didnt like the idea of the catholic church wanting to unify all of christianity…i thought “we are the unified church” if they dont want to be part of us, then fine with me…

but now i see his approach more clearly. i was just watching ewtn and i saw the popes monthly prayer for all christians to use social means of communication to unify.

and now i look at it something i preached but never practiced. we are all on the same team. and it makes sense.

i came back to the catholic church after 12 years. i had many questions about why pray to mary? why go to confession? etc. but instead of asking a born again, or a protestant these questions about a catholic church, i asked catholics. and the answers i got made sense. there was no need for me to convert to another denomination because i personally agree with everything the church basis its view on (now sometimes i dont understand why some do what they do, eventhough the fundamental catholic teaching are different…but thats how it is with ever denomination).

but what i want to bring to attention is something that seperates us so much, but in reality is something that should bring us together.

i asked a born again, a baptist, a protestant and used my own catholic belief. if i left anyone out im sorry. certain denominations i cant take too seriously. i know that sounds close minded, haha but if i listed those i cant take seriously you might agree with me.
**
my catholic belief is this:**
faith is lovely…so is grace.
without faith one cant have grace.
without grace one cant have faith.
how can one have faith but not be inspired by grace to do good deed from the heart.
if you have faith, one will do and serve God, with grace towards others, without even knowing they are doing it because its just a natural lifestyle.

i asked a protestant about faith vs. works:
just like i think its wrong when a southern baptist preachers speaks out against the catholic church, not knowing their head from their a* about catholic faith, i also think it is wrong for a catholic to speak out against a baptist when they know nothing about that denomination…so i asked a protestant! God bless common sense!* they gave me the run down of the protestant work ethic. and i asked them: are you doing good deeds because you want to get into heaven or because its in your heart to do it? and they replied, if you have faith, the gift of grace you will do good deeds from the heart. if you just do good deeds to get into heaven, you really have no faith. the work ethic is not about doing good deeds just to get into heaven, its about acting on the grace God gave us that feels natural to do. Your faith is what saves you, grace is the gift God gave us andis a way to show you have faith i agree thats is the same thing i believe only in different words

tried to ask a born again about faith vs. works
well i tried to ask my dads fiance about faith vs. works. all she said was grace is a gift from God, because you believe and have faith that is good enough. it was like pulling teeth. i guess thats what born agains believe?

but when i think about it, most born again’s (minus the ones who hate the catholic faith) do the works of God without even knowing it. they believe, and because they believe and have faith, they arent even aware they are using the gift of grace God gave us.

satan believes in God, is he going to heaven? nooooooo. because he has no grace.


so i feel a lot more at peace, because when you look at everything for what it is, we all believe the same thing, we explain it or show it, knowingly show or not knowingly show it!

If your faith/belief does not produce works/good fruit you should reexamine what you really believe.
What do you mean by “born again”? you say it like its a denomination. aren’t all believers born again?

 

[CB_Catholic]

If your faith/belief does not produce works/good fruit you should reexamine what you really believe.
What do you mean by “born again”? you say it like its a denomination. aren’t all believers born again?

There are those Christians who identify themselves as “Born Agains.” When asked their denomination they will say “I am a Born Again Christian” and usually say they are non-denominational, although many who do belong to a denomination will identify themselves as “Born Again” Christians."

Many do not believe that all believers are “born again”. In some of the churches I have attended there was actually a ritual (although they would deny it was a ritual because that is something Catholics do, not them). The Preacher gives an altar call, a person goes forward, accepts Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior, and says the “Sinner’s Prayer”. And this must be done publicly. (It is a prescribed course of action, thus it does qualify as a ritual.) This varies from denomination to denomination, or non-denomination to non-denomination, as the case may be. In my personal experience, and I experienced this firsthand over a few years while I was away from the Church, those believers who were merely Baptized were not considered “born again” until they did the above in one form or another. My belief in Jesus and my Baptism were not enough to qualify me as a Christian, I had to do the ritual, either in the church or in front of other believers. So the answer to your question is no; to many Christians, being a believer is not enough. After all, I once was told, the devil is a believer. In most of the churches I attended, the Sinner’s Prayer was a requirement. The Sinner’s Prayer, BTW, is not in the Bible. AND, to make things even more confusing, many believed that if you backslid as a Christian, you were not really “born again” to begin with. I never was quite sure how that was determined, and often an individual would go to the altar multiple times. In Catholic terms, that probably would be called scrupulosity.

Catholics, Lutherans, Anglicans, the Orthodox believe that one is “born again” by water and the Holy Spirit at their Baptism. Fairly simple, esp. since it’s right out of the Bible.

I truly am not poking fun at what others believe and practice, I found it downright confusing. There was a prescribed way of doing things, but it couldn’t be called a ritual, the Catholic church was called legalistic, yet there were legalities that had to be followed to be born again, and often a multitude of rules to be followed after–things like no dancing, no drinking, no smoking, no movies, etc; sometimes being “born-again” didn’t “take” and the person was not really saved to begin with (how is that for an assurance of salvation?); people who truly loved and believed in Jesus and were baptized weren’t Christians, and others who knew absolutely nothing about you except what you told them (and that could be a lie) could determine whether you were saved or not. Only God can sort this all out, I guess.

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

There are those Christians who identify themselves as “Born Agains.” When asked their denomination they will say “I am a Born Again Christian” and usually say they are non-denominational, although many who do belong to a denomination will identify themselves as “Born Again” Christians."

Many do not believe that all believers are “born again”. In some of the churches I have attended there was actually a ritual (although they would deny it was a ritual because that is something Catholics do, not them). The Preacher gives an altar call, a person goes forward, accepts Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior, and says the “Sinner’s Prayer”. And this must be done publicly. (It is a prescribed course of action, thus it does qualify as a ritual.) This varies from denomination to denomination, or non-denomination to non-denomination, as the case may be. In my personal experience, and I experienced this firsthand over a few years while I was away from the Church, those believers who were merely Baptized were not considered “born again” until they did the above in one form or another. My belief in Jesus and my Baptism were not enough to qualify me as a Christian, I had to do the ritual, either in the church or in front of other believers. So the answer to your question is no; to many Christians, being a believer is not enough. After all, I once was told, the devil is a believer. In most of the churches I attended, the Sinner’s Prayer was a requirement. The Sinner’s Prayer, BTW, is not in the Bible. AND, to make things even more confusing, many believed that if you backslid as a Christian, you were not really “born again” to begin with. I never was quite sure how that was determined, and often an individual would go to the altar multiple times. In Catholic terms, that probably would be called scrupulosity.

Catholics, Lutherans, Anglicans, the Orthodox believe that one is “born again” by water and the Holy Spirit at their Baptism. Fairly simple, esp. since it’s right out of the Bible.

I truly am not poking fun at what others believe and practice, I found it downright confusing. There was a prescribed way of doing things, but it couldn’t be called a ritual, the Catholic church was called legalistic, yet there were legalities that had to be followed to be born again, and often a multitude of rules to be followed after–things like no dancing, no drinking, no smoking, no movies, etc; sometimes being “born-again” didn’t “take” and the person was not really saved to begin with (how is that for an assurance of salvation?); people who truly loved and believed in Jesus and were baptized weren’t Christians, and others who knew absolutely nothing about you except what you told them (and that could be a lie) could determine whether you were saved or not. Only God can sort this all out, I guess.

I thought it was simple until you clarified it for me:shrug:

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

there is an important difference in believing in God and believing God.