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maurin
Guest
I am becoming more and more confused. Please help.
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Sobieski
Guest
In a word, no.
They are fringe loonies who lead people astray. I would go so far as to say that “sedevacantism” is in fact evil. It gives people a perverted and sick world view.
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pnewton
Guest
Might I recommend you try this in the AAA forum?
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maurin
Guest
what is the AAA forum?
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pnewton
Guest
The “Ask An Apologist” Forum. They will research the answer and get back to you. They do not answer every question, but this one seems interesting enough. I bet they would use it.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
They do not seem so to me. Granted, they very scrupulously observe all of the trappings of traditionalism. But in my experience of them, they are first and foremost dedicated to a moment in time which allows them to defy the authority of the Church; create their own bishops, etc; an attitude and approach which they will defend well beyond the point of deceptiveness. To me, it is more an idolatry than it is traditionalism.
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MTD
Guest
I think it is well to distinguish between sedevacantism and individual sedevacantists. Sedevacantism is wrong; it’s schismatic. But I daresay most sedevacantists are erring in good faith and thus not true schismatics. Such sedevacantists would therefore still be Catholics.
Maria
Maria
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alih
Guest
from what i understand, motu propio encyclical written by pope pius x and incorporated into the code of canon law 1917, decreed the excommunication of those who were making and/or encouraging changes in the church. the code of canon law was, in the eyes of each pope valid until the promulgation of the code of canon law of 1983 in the year 1988. therefore, in the eyes of the sedevacantist, the pope cannot err, therefore if any succeeding popes violated the aforesaid provisions of "praestantia scripturae sacrae, they could not be pope because they erred. have a good year. (alih)
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jbuck919
Guest
Since I returned to the forums just a few days ago after an absence of several months, I have noticed that the dread “s” word has taken hold here. It may have done so before this, but I did not notice. I would not wish to speak for the moderators, but I would not be surprised if this ends up becoming a banned topic, not because of unorthodoxy, but because it can only lead to flame wars.
Perhaps it would be usefull to point out that “traditional Catholic” already has at least a double meaning. There are plenty of traditional-leaning Catholics in full communion with Rome, but the movement that calls itself in a technical sense “Traditional Catholic” as in traditio.com is schismatic.
Perhaps it would be usefull to point out that “traditional Catholic” already has at least a double meaning. There are plenty of traditional-leaning Catholics in full communion with Rome, but the movement that calls itself in a technical sense “Traditional Catholic” as in traditio.com is schismatic.
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TNT
Guest
Some would see this as pure unvarnished bigotry steeped in ignorance if not anti-ecumenical.
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TNT
Guest
In response:
From the moderators:
Joe Monahan
Traditional Catholicism - talk about the Traditional Latin Mass, the Indult, SSPX
, sedevacantism
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paramedicgirl
Guest
Did you miss this?
**Therese Martin
Administrator
Join Date: May 5, 2004
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 2,410
Default Topic: Sedevacantism
Note:
Sedevacantism may be discussed in the Traditional Catholicism forum, but only in this forum. Please do not place discussions of the subject in other forums on the site. Thanks!**
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Wonko_the_Sane
Guest
Sedevacantism stops being Catholic when they get to the stage of ignoring the doctrine of Papal Authority.
They think they know more than the Pope, and go so far as to think that the Pope we have today is a heretic, and not even the Pope at all.
Their beliefs are unfortunate, misguided and plain wrong. It goes against 2000 years of Tradition. God in his right mind would not let his Church crumble in the hands of a Heretic.
They think they know more than the Pope, and go so far as to think that the Pope we have today is a heretic, and not even the Pope at all.
Their beliefs are unfortunate, misguided and plain wrong. It goes against 2000 years of Tradition. God in his right mind would not let his Church crumble in the hands of a Heretic.
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TNT
Guest
I’m takin this personal.
How would you feel if someone said the following:
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If you embrace the teachings of JPII, he put Ecumenism as the highest purpose of his pontificate.
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rlg94086
Guest
To the original question, I would answer “yes, in my opinion they are ‘Traditional Catholics’” with a caveat:
The issue is somewhat paradoxical.
On the one hand, a sedevacantist is clinging to Tradition so much, that they feel the papacy has been corrupted. They, therefore, see themselves in the mold of St Athanasius.
On the other hand, the argument is that a “Traditional Catholic” would be humble and submit to the teaching of the Pope and Councils.
As individual sedevacantists are genuinely devout in their following of Tradition and believe in their hearts that VII was in error, I have a hard time considering them non-Catholics. I happen to disagree with them and I won’t attend a sedevacantist parish, but that’s about as far as it goes. In all other ways, I consider them fellow Catholics.
The issue is somewhat paradoxical.
On the one hand, a sedevacantist is clinging to Tradition so much, that they feel the papacy has been corrupted. They, therefore, see themselves in the mold of St Athanasius.
On the other hand, the argument is that a “Traditional Catholic” would be humble and submit to the teaching of the Pope and Councils.
As individual sedevacantists are genuinely devout in their following of Tradition and believe in their hearts that VII was in error, I have a hard time considering them non-Catholics. I happen to disagree with them and I won’t attend a sedevacantist parish, but that’s about as far as it goes. In all other ways, I consider them fellow Catholics.
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pnewton
Guest
I have often wondered this myself. I wonder if we would see such tolerance for an onslaught from Catholics for a Free Choice.
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paramedicgirl
Guest
In the proper forum, I guess it might work. L&S?
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Cor_Jesu
Guest
I believe sedevacantists hold the Catholic faith, but truly are schismatic. But they ARE Catholic. Many, many people in the Novus Ordo Church, however, are considered to be in full communion even though their faith is not truly Catholic.
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Cor_Jesu
Guest
I totally agree. And you know, you can consider Vatican II to be in error and not be a sedevacantist, as well. IMO, those who would compare sedevacantist Catholics to “Catholic for a Free Choice” are the real “fringe loonies.” The Novus Ordo Church is, in fact, full of “fringe loonies”, even Cardinals, yet hardly anyone is accusing THEM of not being Catholic. Funny how that works. It seems like ANYTHING GOES in the Novus Ordo Church…anything except Catholic Tradition, of course.
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TNT
Guest
I thought they were explicitly excommunicated as heretical, at least by Bruskowiz?
Are you saying that a SEDE is excommunicated? If not, why the comparative?
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