Indian Christianity

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Recently I’ve heard a little bit about Catholic Mysticism, in the form or “Ashram”, which as I understand it, is a mixing of Catholic Theology and Hindu practices, like forms of meditation. I heard it was also started by a Catholic Monk but I’m not sure what order they belonged to.

Can this be a legitimate form of Catholicism? I know the Catholic Church has co-opted symbols and some practices from the places they have converted but wouldn’t that require the almost complete elimination of Hindu beliefs? A book on Catholic Mysticism today or Indian Catholicism would be very helpful!
 
Recently I’ve heard a little bit about Catholic Mysticism, in the form or “Ashram”, which as I understand it, is a mixing of Catholic Theology and Hindu practices, like forms of meditation. I heard it was also started by a Catholic Monk but I’m not sure what order they belonged to.

Can this be a legitimate form of Catholicism? I know the Catholic Church has co-opted symbols and some practices from the places they have converted but wouldn’t that require the almost complete elimination of Hindu beliefs? A book on Catholic Mysticism today or Indian Catholicism would be very helpful!
I believe what your talking about is Bede Grifith’s group…I believe they are Franciscans.
 
Yes, I purchased their Divine Office which is based on the Indian Orthodox West Syrian “Khudra” translated into English (Fr. Taft discusses this in his book on the Divine Office). (They are in fact a Benedictine community that have adapted to Indian monasticism - christ3000.org/ashram_us.htm ).

Catholic or not, this Ashram has made quite the impression on the Indian Orthodox bishops who continue to encourage the monks in their translation work of their liturgical heritage - what greater compliment can be had than that?

It is true that they have also adapted some readings from India’s non-Christian books, but only where they don’t conflict with Christianity. This has attracted Hindus to come and see what they are about and what Christ is about.

This is no more radical than St Thomas Aquinas appropriating the systems of thought from pagan Greek philosophers etc.

Hinduism already numbers Christ among its deities as the “ninth avatar.” So did the Roman Emperor Alexander Severus who personally refused to persecute Christians.

But I digress . . .

It was Fr. Roberto DiNobili SJ who began as a missionary in India to adapt Indian practices such as the wearing of the three cords over one’s shoulder - for him, of course, the three cords represented the Three Divine Persons of the Holy Trinity.

He was hauled up on the carpet at Rome for this, but the Pope of his day exonerated him completely.

The Franciscans tended to oppose inculturation of the Christian faith and practice (unlike the forward-looking and extremely well educated Jesuits). It was only with Pope Pius XII that the “Chinese and Indian Rites” were approved in 1946. They should have been approved a few centuries ago . . .

In opposing inculturation, the Franciscans and others like them tended to present a Christianity that was largely a European cultural by-product. They couldn’t seem to get beyond that and so the cause of evangelization was badly damaged before now.

Be that as it may, I would gladly let you have their Divine Office but I have since given it to an Indian Catholic fellow who is studying for the priesthood to work in India.

Alex
 
The Franciscans tended to oppose inculturation of the Christian faith and practice (unlike the forward-looking and extremely well educated Jesuits). It was only with Pope Pius XII that the “Chinese and Indian Rites” were approved in 1946. They should have been approved a few centuries ago . . .
Alex
I don’t know if it’s necessarily fair to judge the Franciscans so harshly. I know a little bit about the Chinese Rites Controversy and I believe that the Franciscans had legitimate qualms about readily allowing pagan practices to become a part of legitimate Christian worship, especially when it came to things like “Ancestor Worship”. Sometimes Dogma can be pushed aside for “inclusiveness”, which some Catholics have done anyway, with New Age practices and what not( of which Hinduism is unfortunately an important contributor).

But again, I also agree that Catholic “Euro/Western-centric” thoughts and practices have diminished the Church’s ability to woo cultures and people.

Anyway, thanks for the offer of the book but if you could just give me some more information on it. You are talking about “The Liturgy of the Hours in East and West” by Fr. Taft?
 
I don’t know if it’s necessarily fair to judge the Franciscans so harshly. I know a little bit about the Chinese Rites Controversy and I believe that the Franciscans had legitimate qualms about readily allowing pagan practices to become a part of legitimate Christian worship, especially when it came to things like “Ancestor Worship”. Sometimes Dogma can be pushed aside for “inclusiveness”, which some Catholics have done anyway, with New Age practices and what not( of which Hinduism is unfortunately an important contributor).

But again, I also agree that Catholic “Euro/Western-centric” thoughts and practices have diminished the Church’s ability to woo cultures and people.

Anyway, thanks for the offer of the book but if you could just give me some more information on it. You are talking about “The Liturgy of the Hours in East and West” by Fr. Taft?
I hope I was not harsh with the Franciscans or anyone here. I was being harsh with the approach since nothing in the Chinese Rites came anywhere near to “pagan worship.”

The Jesuits had studied the matter very comprehensively and scholarly - the Franciscans did nothing of the sort but only reacted within an ethnocentric perspective of western European chauvinism (this would also explain a lot about East-West Christian relations in Eastern Europe as well).

In any event, the Chinese Rites were practices that had nothing to do with Christian liturgical worship. The respect paid to tablets with the name of Kung Fu-Tsu or the respect given to one’s elders and prayers for them at home altars - these are all things that had to do with civic and cultural aspects of Chinese life. Fr. Matteo Ricci SJ understood this brilliantly and became so “Chinese” that the Emperor ordered him to be entombed in China itself - an unheard of honour for a foreigner.

As an Eastern Catholic, my Church also has numerous cultural practices taken over from pre-Christian/pagan times. They have been Christianized, although their original meanings were non-Christian. And they are so integrated with the Byzantine religious/cultural ethos so as to be inseparable from it.

As a result of the activity of the Franciscans and others in this respect that served to only undercut the excellent inroads that the Jesuits had made into China, China was lost to the Catholic Church. Some question whether communism would have ever taken off in a country that might have been completely Catholic (as an inculturated phenomenon).

So, yes, the Franciscans of that time have much to answer for in that mission field. China needed a Chinese Catholic Church, not a European Church.

That is not meant to be “harsh,” only fair in terms of what did happen. That is not to condemn the Franciscan Order, only the actions of the Franciscans in that time period. As Pope Julius II said of the burning of the Dominican Jerome Savonarola, “It is the sin that pollutes, not the confession of the sin.”

Yes, Fr. Robert Taft’s book is where I first came across the mention of the Ashram’s Office Book based on the West Syrian “Khudra.”

I ordered their Office, which was in several volumes, directly from them (it was the rainy season, so it took a while to get to North America!). Cheers,

Alex
 
The Jesuits had studied the matter very comprehensively and scholarly - the Franciscans did nothing of the sort but only reacted within an ethnocentric perspective of western European chauvinism (this would also explain a lot about East-West Christian relations in Eastern Europe as well).

In any event, the Chinese Rites were practices that had nothing to do with Christian liturgical worship. The respect paid to tablets with the name of Kung Fu-Tsu or the respect given to one’s elders and prayers for them at home altars - these are all things that had to do with civic and cultural aspects of Chinese life. Fr. Matteo Ricci SJ understood this brilliantly and became so “Chinese” that the Emperor ordered him to be entombed in China itself - an unheard of honour for a foreigner.
Three statements.

I am Chinese.

In the past, my education has been handled by Franciscans.

Oh, and if the screenname doesn’t give it away - Matteo Ricci was kind of one of the major topics i studied in university way back when.

Allow me to say - Alex is so completely correct on the matter with this one.

Much of what torpedoed the Jesuits’ attempts to convert the Chinese came not from the native population itself but from their own fellow monastic orders. And frankly, the whole situation reeks of internal politics.

The primarily dilemma is that the critics of the Jesuit mission made up their mind on the situation even prior to setting foot on Chinese soil to actually see what was going on.

Moreover their understanding of the differences between Daoism, Buddhism, Confucianism, and its syncretistic, dare i say “Cafeterian”, expression amongst the actual population was minimal at best.

We can contrast this with the Jesuit experience - esp. Matteo who actually was capable of cognizing not only the social differences between a Buddhist monk, a Daoist priest, and one of the literati, but also researching what each school of thought taught and realizing “one of these things isn’t like the other.”
As an Eastern Catholic, my Church also has numerous cultural practices taken over from pre-Christian/pagan times. They have been Christianized, although their original meanings were non-Christian. And they are so integrated with the Byzantine religious/cultural ethos so as to be inseparable from it.
Heck, for all of us, the title “Pontiff” should give it away. 😉

As an EC, your uniquely positioned to understand the concept of cultural/regional variation within the Church…whereas mot Norvus Ordo/Latins have known nothing else (even the EC!)

Couple this with what occurred during the 1960s and what you get is a population that is highly suspicious of anything that comes outside of its cultural millieu - therefore promoting essentially a “European Church.”

This is especially true for things emanating from Asia - i can even point to priets within our Church who believe practicing the stripped down execise version of Yoga can lead to demonic possession. 🤷

Addenum: but i digress. there needs to be a balanced way of approaching things.

Somewhere between the almost extreme suspicion of things “foreign” sustained by someone like say Tertullian vs. an equally extreme spiritual sycnretism.
 
Thank you for you erudite comments, sir!

We look forward to your sharing of your scholarly and interesting insights with us!

Alex
 
That is not meant to be “harsh,” only fair in terms of what did happen. That is not to condemn the Franciscan Order, only the actions of the Franciscans in that time period.
I agree with brother Alex’s assessment. Franciscan missionaries were not always so Euro-centric. The very first Franciscan missionaries in Egypt were very understanding of the local customs of the Coptic Orthodox. In fact, in the 17th thru early 18th centuries, missionaries regularly communed with the Coptic Orthodox for almost 100 years. It all changed in the latter 18th and the 19th centuries.

I theorize that the change in attitude came as a response to the syncretistic and liberal excesses of the Enlightenment. Though it was acceptable from several perspectives, I think it is an understandable reaction to the tide of liberalism.

Blessings,
Marduk
 
Though it was acceptable from several perspectives, I think it is an understandable reaction to the tide of liberalism.
OOPS! That should have been:

Though it was UNacceptable from several perspectives, I think it is an understandable reaction to the tide of liberalism.

Blessings
 
I agree with brother Alex’s assessment. Franciscan missionaries were not always so Euro-centric. The very first Franciscan missionaries in Egypt were very understanding of the local customs of the Coptic Orthodox. In fact, in the 17th thru early 18th centuries, missionaries regularly communed with the Coptic Orthodox for almost 100 years. It all changed in the latter 18th and the 19th centuries.

I theorize that the change in attitude came as a response to the syncretistic and liberal excesses of the Enlightenment. Though it was acceptable from several perspectives, I think it is an understandable reaction to the tide of liberalism.

Blessings,
Marduk
Erp didn’t mean to imply an indictment of the the whole Franciscan order for all time.

It really just comes down to a “human resources” issue really - the Jesuits were doing fine in China, but from i understand they didn’t so well with the Syro-Malabar issue in India and the Vatican had to get the Carmelites to step in.
 
An Ashram is simply another word for monastery. So there are many types of ashrams to meet the needs of the various Christian groups.
 
An Ashram is simply another word for monastery. So there are many types of ashrams to meet the needs of the various Christian groups.
That is true to an extent, but as you know the ashrams differ wildly in what they promote, especially with regard to inculturation.

I think there are legitimate forms of inculturation. 70 or 80 years ago Rome was too rigid about simple things like allowing priests to remove shoes in the church. That was just silly.

However, looking at the practice of inculturation today, in some places it has gone completely overboard into near-full scale Hindu-ization. There is a difference between, for exmaple, garlanding statues, putting pictures of our Lady in a sari, and singing hymns to bhajan tunes,on one hand and on the other designing tabernacles in the form of lingam and replacing readings from Scripture with other religious texts.

I seriously question the need to, for example, have our Eucharistic rites resemble a certain form of puja, in almost each and every aspect. Or if one looks for example, at the insistence of using the Sanskrit Sachidanand vs. Trinity – the former is not understood by people anymore than the latter. For me, at least, some of the inculturation smacks too strongly of the view promoted by the Hindutva partisans of equating Hinduism (or Brahmanical practise of Hinduism) with being Indian. And sadly, the accompanying theology in many cases is just plain syncretic and relativistic, which is quite clear if one reads some of the articles from the Vidyajyoti journals or writings of people like the late Dr. Amalorpavadas who promoted inculturation. It goes beyond a simple explanation of doctrine using language of the culture. I’m not sure even the Jesuits involved in the early missions would have approved.
 
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