Indirect lying

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ddimitro

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Hi,

I’ve been wondering about this, so I thought I’d see what everybody thought?

What are the moral responsibilities for a Catholic who hasn’t outright lied, but I suppose is hiding something intentionally?

Specifically, everyone in my family-parents, relatives, friends, etc. have been told about my job, income, and all of that, BUT what I haven’t said is that I’m actually self-employed. I own the corporation for which I work.

Why didn’t I say that in the beginning? Stress. Stress on the family. Their perception of self-employment and those they know, who have mostly failed.

I feel guilty, but at the same time feel telling them would do more harm than good. No one is being supported by me, nor working for the company (i.e. “me”). What do you think?

God Bless,
DD
 
You should send your mother a link to this thread. Besides, mom always knows anyway 🙂 .

But in all reality the problem seems to be that you want to be accepted in your venture. Perhaps tell them that you feel bad about withholding the info and explain why you did withhold it to begin with. Maybe they will reconsider there position on the issue in general. If not you at least told them the truth.

Things like this always seem to need to be blown open in the end. If you approach them only after your in the the fortune 500 they will perhaps ask why you did not tell them from the beginning.

And yes I feel indirect ls the same as any other lie it’s just more deceptive and easily justified to ones self when done in good intentions.

-D
 
You have told them a partial truth because you felt that the whole truth would offend them or needlessly worry them about you?

So what? Is there a rule somewhere that says you are required to disclose all of your personal information to those people? How is it hurting them to continue thinking you work for someone else?

The only issue I see is the idea that someday they will find out. Have you set things up that they will be extremely offended later if and when they do, so much more that they should hear it from you first to avoid even greater offense? If so, you might want to devise a plan to bring them in on it before that happens. If not, then what’s the harm? Perhaps if you built up a sufficient track record of success and then told them, their offense at not knowing might be ameliorated by the relief that your situation is stable.

I like your thinking about whether telling them would do more harm than good. That’s more rational than thinking “they have false assumptions about me – must dispel – beep!”

Before anybody tells me that I’m advocating living a lie and that’s terrible, I’ll ask them where does it end – is he also required to disclose to his relatives how often he goes to the bathroom, or keep them updated on his bank balance? Where, exactly, is the line of “do not need to know?”

Alan
 
There is a moral principle called “mental reservation” and is a valid reason for not disclosing the entire truth. You are entitled to your privacy.

You may want to read up on it in the Catholic Encyclopedia. Fr. Bob Levis on the EWTN Q&A also cited this principle.
 
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AlanFromWichita:
You have told them a partial truth because you felt that the whole truth would offend them or needlessly worry them about you?

So what? Is there a rule somewhere that says you are required to disclose all of your personal information to those people? How is it hurting them to continue thinking you work for someone else?

The only issue I see is the idea that someday they will find out. Have you set things up that they will be extremely offended later if and when they do, so much more that they should hear it from you first to avoid even greater offense? If so, you might want to devise a plan to bring them in on it before that happens. If not, then what’s the harm? Perhaps if you built up a sufficient track record of success and then told them, their offense at not knowing might be ameliorated by the relief that your situation is stable.

I like your thinking about whether telling them would do more harm than good. That’s more rational than thinking “they have false assumptions about me – must dispel – beep!”

Before anybody tells me that I’m advocating living a lie and that’s terrible, I’ll ask them where does it end – is he also required to disclose to his relatives how often he goes to the bathroom, or keep them updated on his bank balance? Where, exactly, is the line of “do not need to know?”

Alan
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Good Point!

I think that for me personally it would be fine to keep my business my business as I see fit. If I felt guilty about hiding it from all of the people I know family and friends included, I might figure there is some problem there. Personally I would tell everyone I know if I were going into a business.

This way if the biz goes under I wont have to lie and tell people I got fired or layed off to avoid them knowing I was in business to begin with. But in all reality there is not a whole lot of complete information here like the nature of the business or the age of the poster or the potential motivation for everyone’s potential concerns etc etc etc. I do however feel that there is a time and a place for withholding information. It can be a wise choice but shouldn’t result in guilt.

For example if I come upon a friend with some bad news only to find he/she in a state of depression over another issue and in a drunken stupor, I might wait a while before adding to the problem if it’s right to do so. I guess it’s all in discernment and wisdom on a case by case basis but the truth is most often the best avenue. Maybe ask a person in your local Church you can get into real detail about it with.

-D
 
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ddimitro:
Hi,

I’ve been wondering about this, so I thought I’d see what everybody thought?

What are the moral responsibilities for a Catholic who hasn’t outright lied, but I suppose is hiding something intentionally?

Specifically, everyone in my family-parents, relatives, friends, etc. have been told about my job, income, and all of that, BUT what I haven’t said is that I’m actually self-employed. I own the corporation for which I work.

Why didn’t I say that in the beginning? Stress. Stress on the family. Their perception of self-employment and those they know, who have mostly failed.

I feel guilty, but at the same time feel telling them would do more harm than good. No one is being supported by me, nor working for the company (i.e. “me”). What do you think?

God Bless,
DD
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It’s probably best to be up-front, but there may be a good reason for withholding that information, so I think it depends on the circumstances. To alleviate your concience a little: actually you are not self employed. Corporations are separate intities. You are an employee of the corporation. You own stock in the corporation (probably all of it), but you are not self employed, you are an employee.

So, should you tell your family that you own all of the stock in the company you work for? I don’t see how that is any of their business.

But, are you also withholding this information from your wife? If so, that seems different. I think you should tell her.
 
why would you feel a compulsion, moral or otherwise, to reveal personal information about yourself to others, including your family? Obviously your wife should know about your job, source of income and everything else, but do not mistake healthy or prudential reserve with lying or concealment. Now if you were asking people to invest money in this venture, and did not disclose material facts such as you are the sole owner and employee, that would be a lie. When people ask my husband what he does he just says he is a programmer. No need to go into detail about his company and other business ventures. Just operate on a need to know basis.
 
Keep in mind that you must tell the truth to everyone who must be told it. If a person doesn’t have any reason for being told a thing (e.g.: it’s irrelevant data, it won’t help him in any way or it’s private information) then you don’t have the moral obligation of telling the truth. Of course, this doesn’t mean you can lie to everybody unless you must tell the truth to someone. It means inapropiate questions don’t need to be answered and unneded info doesn’t have to be revealed. It’s common sense ^_^U

I don’t know if I could explain myself very well… you know, language issues… 😛

By the way, puzzleannie, nice quote. It’s from St. John of the Cross, isn’t it?
 
I seem to recall that we are not obligated to tell the truth to someone who is not entitled to it.

Someone hiding Jews in the house was not obligated to tell the truth to the Gestapo, in fact they had a moral obligation to lie as hard as they could.
 
This is an interesting subject. Let’s say he/she gets a call from dad tonight and he asks… so how is your new boss? Then asks what’s his/her name and do you have benefits like vacation time or medical insurance?

Then say he asks about trade specific details say in regards to training or equipment or what not depending on the field.

Is it right to create cover stories to preserve the right to privacy and repeat them to all the friends etc, or would these be a list of lies? People do tend to ask other people how everything is going at work so I feel this scenario is fairly possible in this instance.

If the venture fails is it right to tell everyone something along the lines of ‘I didnt like the job so I quit’? Or would it be better to tell people the truth? I can understand not wanting to divulge to people if I fell down in my bathroom and smacked the back of my head on the sink. But when a deception is created to all of ones family and friends does it not foster an enviorment for continual deception?

-D
 
Who is hurt by your mental reservation? No one.

Are you in a special situation where you are obligated to tell everything – as in a confessional or on a witness stand? No.

Do you gain an unfair advantage or make a profit by not disclosing everything? No.

The fact that it bothers you reflects credit on you and your conscience – but you have committed no sin.
 
Great responses!

OK, first, I’m 22, and single. I have almost finished my bachelor’s degree (I have just a few classes to complete this spring), and I’ll be doing that thru Independent Study from the university that I physically attended prior to now.

I guess my guilt is in the accolades everyone seems to be pouring out: directly and indirectly. Every so often, I’ll get an e-card from Mom saying how proud she is. People will tell their family and friends about my “great/perfect” job, and how lucky I am to have found a good job after graduation (almost).

As for the cover stories, yes, that could create deception and sin.
When asked how work is, just tell them. When asked about vacation and benefits, if you want, tell them about your health plan and vacation time. Those are easy.
About your boss, I generally say I don’t report to anyone in particular, but go to whomever the specific question/problem concerns (human resource issue–talk to human resources).

I suppose that the guilt will cease. After all, it’s only been about six months since this all started!

Thanks-DD
 
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Darrel:
Is it right to create cover stories to preserve the right to privacy and repeat them to all the friends etc, or would these be a list of lies? People do tend to ask other people how everything is going at work so I feel this scenario is fairly possible in this instance.
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Dear Darrel,

You bring up a good point. Not disclosing truth is like lying, if you feel obligated to give any answer at all to such questions, in that one must come up with cover stories. I find it unfortunate that so many people feel compelled to reveal something just because they are asked, because we feel unfriendly or like we’re hiding something if we don’t answer. We should have the right to say “no comment” when asked about work and not be seen as a brush-off; I’m probably more inclined to try to be vague or distract from the point I don’t want to answer, than to make up cover stories, but that’s just me.

Alan
 
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AlanFromWichita:
Dear Darrel,

You bring up a good point. Not disclosing truth is like lying, if you feel obligated to give any answer at all to such questions, in that one must come up with cover stories.
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Except in the confessional or in cases at law, no one has a right to ask you about those personal matters you choose not to talk about. You have a perfect right to be noncommittal, or to deflect questions.

And people understand that – after all when someone asks you, “how are you?” he doesn’t expect a two-hour lecture on your bowels and hemmrhoids!
 
vern humphrey:
Except in the confessional or in cases at law, no one has a right to ask you about those personal matters you choose not to talk about. You have a perfect right to be noncommittal, or to deflect questions.
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This is an excellent reason to keep one’s own counsel except with a chosen few. No one suspects you of hiding that which you never discuss in the first place.
 
With close family and close friends, while it is true that they don’t need to know everything about you, they usually are relationships that work best with an understanding that you won’t deceive them. If I were doing something large (sounds like you are), I would let them know that I am employed or whatnot, but that I am not going into details right now about it. I would not engender false impressions. I think in the long run, it would harm that type of relationship too much. I would not run the risk of being deceptive. Rather, I would run the risk of being temporarily uncommunicative instead.
 
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