Indulgences

[kleine_katerine]

Just to start I’d like to point out I’m a recent convert to catholicism (from no prior religious background) and am trying to get to grips with what I believe.

What exactly are indulgences? When are they given and why? Luther disapproved of the selling of indulgences, why were they being sold and does it still occur?

 

[Alindawyl]

This site has a great explanation of indulgences and the many misconceptions about them. It’s on this page.

 

[Mel_Stones]

I was wondering about indulgences too. Thanks for the link Alindawyl.

I don’t understand the bold part in the following though:

“To gain any indulgence you must be a Catholic in a state of grace. You must be a Catholic in order to be under the Church’s jurisdiction, and you must be in a state of grace because apart from God’s grace none of your actions are fundamentally pleasing to God (meritorious). You also must have at least the habitual intention of gaining an indulgence by the act performed.”

It doesn’t count as an indulgence if you weren’t looking for an indulgence when you did it?

 

[kleine_katerine]

Ta muchly. Makes more sense now.

God bless

 

[sancte_joseph]

I was wondering about indulgences too. Thanks for the link Alindawyl.

I don’t understand the bold part in the following though:

“To gain any indulgence you must be a Catholic in a state of grace. You must be a Catholic in order to be under the Church’s jurisdiction, and you must be in a state of grace because apart from God’s grace none of your actions are fundamentally pleasing to God (meritorious). You also must have at least the habitual intention of gaining an indulgence by the act performed.”

It doesn’t count as an indulgence if you weren’t looking for an indulgence when you did it?

Yup… that’s pretty much it… You have to want to get an indulgence and that doesn’t mean that you pray just because it has an indulgence (certain prayers have an indulgence to them) or do other things just because they have an indulgence

 

[NeedImprovement]

I was wondering about indulgences too. Thanks for the link Alindawyl.

I don’t understand the bold part in the following though:

“To gain any indulgence you must be a Catholic in a state of grace. You must be a Catholic in order to be under the Church’s jurisdiction, and you must be in a state of grace because apart from God’s grace none of your actions are fundamentally pleasing to God (meritorious). You also must have at least the habitual intention of gaining an indulgence by the act performed.”

It doesn’t count as an indulgence if you weren’t looking for an indulgence when you did it?

You can get a fairly simple grasp of the basics at this link newadvent.org/cathen/07783a.htm if you scroll down to the part ( about a third of the way down the page) subtitled Basis of the doctrine.

The term (and doctrine of) “vicarious satisfaction” is helpful in understanding why we must have an habitual intention of gaining the indulgence.

First off, all our actions have consequences. Every prayer or good work we do has a sanctifying effect on the entire Church / Mystical Body of Christ, while every sin committed has a harmful effect (even though some of the consequences of either may be hidden from our eyes).

We ( the baptised) all belong to the priesthood, be it the common priesthood or the ministerial priesthood - and this only through, with and in Christ;

Catechism of the Catholic Church: 1545 - 1547
usccb.org/catechism/text/pt2sect2chpt3.shtml

So an indulgence is actually Christ’s invitation to us to share in his own vicarious satisfaction … kind of, as the prayer said by the priest (or deacon) when he mixes the drop(s) of water with the wine in the chalice during the offertory ( preparation of the gifts ) asks:

" By the mystery of this water and wine may we come to share in the divinity of Christ who humbled himself to share in our humanity."

We need to have an idea of what we are asking for and subsequently what we shall offer because it is something which will be applied to us directly or to a holy soul in Purgatory.

To what extent we have to know these things is often commensurate to the pace at which we are able to grow in their understanding. There is a daily offering prayer for those who wear the scapular which concludes with these words:

“… My Jesus, I desire to gain every indulgence and merit I can today, and I offer them , together with myself, to Mary Immaculate that she may best apply them in the interests of your most Sacred Heart.” It is a statement of habitual intention.

One possible (though imperfect) analogy of an indulgence might be that of a mother who is willing to give one of her kidneys to her child who is in need of one. The mother doesn’t need to know exactly how the removal and transplant will take place surgically, she only needs to know that it will take place, respecting certain conditions. And as the mother gives of herself, what makes that “transplant” most precious of all in God’s eyes is the love the mother has for the child; which motivates the entire thing.

 

[Alindawyl]

It doesn’t count as an indulgence if you weren’t looking for an indulgence when you did it?

Think of it as the exercise of our free will. If we don’t intend to receive an indulgence, God doesn’t force one on us. Likewise, if we don’t repent of our sins at confession but merely go through the motions then God accepts our clear decision to not be forgiven and allows us to remain in sin.

Intent matters.

 

[Mel_Stones]

**Alindawyl, NeedImprovement, sancte joseph, and anyone else who wishes to reply.
**
Okay I have to want an indulgence to get it. Does desiring to be closer to God count as wanting an indulgence? Or do I have to want less time in Purgatory? These are mostly the same thing but not entirely.

Basically I often do acts that I now know have indulgences attached but I have never known anything about indulgences and so have never desired to specifically gain any. Have I never gained indulgences?

 

[sancte_joseph]

**Alindawyl, NeedImprovement, sancte joseph, and anyone else who wishes to reply.
**
Okay I have to want an indulgence to get it. Does desiring to be closer to God count as wanting an indulgence? Or do I have to want less time in Purgatory? These are mostly the same thing but not entirely.

Basically I often do acts that I now know have indulgences attached but I have never known anything about indulgences and so have never desired to specifically gain any. Have I never gained indulgences?

Well like you stated they are somewhat the same… the desire to get closer to God is what purgatory is for… God’s mercy is so great that he purifies those in purgatory so that they may enter into the heavenly kingdom. So it’s not so much as reducing your time in purgatory as if it were a prison sentence but rather something that helps you get closer to God…

 

[NeedImprovement]

**Alindawyl, NeedImprovement, sancte joseph, and anyone else who wishes to reply.
**
Okay I have to want an indulgence to get it. Does desiring to be closer to God count as wanting an indulgence? Or do I have to want less time in Purgatory? These are mostly the same thing but not entirely.

Basically I often do acts that I now know have indulgences attached but I have never known anything about indulgences and so have never desired to specifically gain any. Have I never gained indulgences?

These are great questions Mel (I could see smoke coming out of my ears as I read them

Unfortunately, without the situational specifics, it can remain difficult to provide detailed responses; but here are a few thoughts that might help.

To begin, as a general rule, we should never (even inadvertently) try to impose limits on God’s Mercy…it’s way too awesome for us to be able to conceive. Here is what Jesus told Saint Faustina about His Divine Mercy (from the following site) thedivinemercy.org/library/article.php?NID=2262

"My mercy is so great that no mind, be it of man or of angel, will be able to fathom it throughout all eternity."

To concur with you and sancte joseph,I think you hit the nail on the head when you speak of desiring to be closer to God. That is the purest of intentions. Indulgences also work towards this same end by leading us in the direction of detachment from sin. According to what the holy souls in Purgatory told St. Faustina, their longing for God is their greatest torment (from the following site)pwhs-mfi.org/newsletter/news13/st_faustina.htm

Diary No. 20
(Vision of Purgatory)

“One day I asked the Lord, ‘Lord, who else should I pray for?’ Jesus said that on the following night He would let me know for whom I should always pray for.
The following night, I saw my Guardian Angel who asked me to follow him. In a moment I was in a misty place full of fire in which there was a great crowd of suffering souls. They were praying fervently, but to no avail, for themselves; only we can come to their aid. The flames which were burning them did not touch me at all. My Guardian Angel did not leave me for an instant. I asked these souls what their greatest suffering was. They answered me in one voice that their greatest torment was longing for God. I saw Our Lady visiting the souls in Purgatory. The souls call her ‘The Star of the Sea.’ She brings them refreshment. I wanted to talk with them some more, but my Guardian Angel beckoned me to leave. We went out of the prison of suffering. * which said, My mercy does not want this, but justice demands it. Since that time, I am in closer communion with the suffering souls.”*

…
Basically I often do acts that I now know have indulgences attached but I have never known anything about indulgences and so have never desired to specifically gain any. Have I never gained indulgences?

If you have ever availed yourself of the sacrament of Reconciliation/Confession and performed the penance prescribed by the confessor, then yes you must have gained some indulgences. Obtaining that fullness of forgiveness concerning the temporal punishment which might remain after Confession is the whole point of giving someone penance or performing one’s penance.

(from this site; bolds are mine) newadvent.org/cathen/11618c.htm

…“So far as pertains to its force and efficacy, the effect (res et effectus) of this sacrament is reconciliation with God, upon which there sometimes follows, in pious and devout recipients, peace and calm of conscience with intense consolation of spirit”. This reconciliation implies first of all that the guilt of sin is remitted, and consequently also the eternal punishment due to mortal sin. As the Council of Trent declares, penance requires the performance of satisfaction "not indeed for the eternal penalty which is remitted together with the guilt either by the sacrament or by the desire of receiving the sacrament, but for the temporal penalty which, as the Scriptures teach, is not always forgiven entirely as it is in baptism"…

As the Catechism tells us # 1471 ], indulgences are closely linked to the effects of the sacrament of Reconciliation vatican.va/archive/catechism/p2s2c2a4.htm

Additionally, if anyone has prayed, say, a Hail Mary with the intention, “Lord, I’m praying for the souls in Purgatory” or, “Please have mercy on the souls in Purgatory”, or “Please relieve their suffering (even w/o the Hail Mary)” ., then they have probably gained a partial indulgence for the holy souls…since what they are asking is a relief/respite/reprieve from temporary punishment due to sin … even if the word “indulgence” itself never comes to mind.

As for all those indulgenced works one had already performed w/o knowing about indulgences, I think I might personally confide these to Jesus’ “unfathomable Mercy” and ask (I’d personally request it through our Blessed Mother) that the holy souls receive the maximum benefits possible from those works. Then I’d try to concentrate on gaining a single plenary indulgence, which entirely remits all temporal punishment due to sin.

Jesus to Saint Faustina on the souls in Purgatory - meditation for Day 8 of the Novena to the Divine Mercy ewtn.com/Devotionals/mercy/novena.htm#8

Eighth Day

“Today bring to Me the Souls who are in the prison of Purgatory, and immerse them in the abyss of My mercy. Let the torrents of My Blood cool down their scorching flames. All these souls are greatly loved by Me. They are making retribution to My justice. It is in your power to bring them relief. Draw all the indulgences from the treasury of My Church and offer them on their behalf. Oh, if you only knew the torments they suffer, you would continually offer for them the alms of the spirit and pay off their debt to My justice.”

 

[Alindawyl]

Note that it’s specified we must have at least a habitual intention when it comes to indulgences. It should be an actual intention if it’s something we don’t normally do, but if it’s something we do on a regular basis then we don’t need to be thinking about receiving an indulgence each and every time we do something.

Look at the common ways of receiving an indulgence: performing the sign of the cross complete with spoken words, prayer and/or spiritual communion, reciting the rosary, and studying Scripture. Those are habits we should want to develop anyway, even if they didn’t have an indulgence attached to them.

As NeedImprovement said, by all means pray that your past acts will have any merit which could have been derived from them applied retroactively. One of the most magnificent things about God is that he’s eternal and perceives the past, present and future as one.

But most of all don’t worry about purgatory. God’s justice demands that we suffer as much as is necessary to purify us, but God’s mercy demands that we not suffer a moment past that. Think about purgatory as it concerns others and what you can do to help them in their purification. The best way to help yourself is to do it indirectly, by directly assisting others through prayer and action.

 

[allhers]

Just to start I’d like to point out I’m a recent convert to catholicism (from no prior religious background) and am trying to get to grips with what I believe.

What exactly are indulgences? When are they given and why? Luther disapproved of the selling of indulgences, why were they being sold and does it still occur?

You’ve been given a lot of good solid advice on Indulgences, did anyone mention that this is the Year of the Priest and that we have been granted a Special Indulgence for that?

Both Priest and us.

The conditions for the Plenary Indulgence are explained here.
vatican.va/roman_curia/tribunals/apost_penit/documents/rc_trib_appen_doc_20090425_indulg-anno-sacerd_en.html

It also says this:
Partial Indulgence is granted to all the faithful every time they devoutly recite five Our Fathers, Hail Marys and Glorias, or another expressly approved prayer, in honour of the Sacred Heart of Jesus, to obtain that priests be preserved in purity and holiness of life.

 

[Alindawyl]

I was not aware of that, allhers! Many thanks for the information.

 

[Mel_Stones]

Alindawyl, NeedImprovement, sancte joseph

Thanks for all the great information! I’ve really learned a lot here.

 

[allhers]

I was not aware of that, allhers! Many thanks for the information.

Y/W, if I knew how to start threads on here I’d post one, maybe you could, I had to get someone else to start one for me once because I am just way too computer dumb when it comes to figuring out these kinds of things. Its a wonder I ever found this site at all, but someone helped me with that too. (I’m pretty good at finding info out but not real good at following instructions.)

 

[NeedImprovement]

Alindawyl, NeedImprovement, sancte joseph

Thanks for all the great information! I’ve really learned a lot here.

I’m learning things too from this thread:

• didn’t yet know of the indulgence re. Year of The Priest
• really enjoyed Alindawyl’s insight & description of indulgence-related intentions.

I guess we should also thank kleine_katerine for starting the thread