Infertile Women are Worthless?

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LabChick

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While driving to work yesterday, I heard the guest on Catholic Answers Live (Kyle or Carl ?? something) tell a caller who asked about infertility that women who aren’t able to have children are not as valuable in the eyes of the Catholic Church as women who reproduce multiple times.

Further, another caller was told that adoption is only a last resort and not really a “natural” way to create a family.

Is this really what the Church believes??

I ask because I was with a friend who had abdmoninal surgery following an auto accident at the age of 15 and it left her sterile. She’s preparing for RCIA in the fall, but had serious doubts after hearing that.
 
In no way, shape, or form are women who are infertile not as valuable because they can’t have children. Are you kidding? I can’t believe that you could have possibly heard this on a Catholic radio program. The Catholic church encourages life, ALL LIFE!!! God has a plan for all of us whether we can bear children or not. Please encourage your friend to continue in RCIA.👍
 
That was a program with Karl Keating. I heard it too. But I think the meaning Karl was trying to get across was misunderstood. He was trying to explain why the church is against IVF and other immoral fertilty methods. I do not recall him saying that an infertile woman would be less valuable. I know the church does not feel that way.

Karl is on the board once in a while though, and I know the apologists from Catholic Answers is on all the time. Maybe you should post the question in the Ask an Apologist thread if you would like an “official” answer.

🙂 Lilder
 
I’ll do that. I was hoping I misunderstood.

From listening to the program and reading his newsletter, I do feel that Mr. Keating frequently makes an issue that women should not be included in the Church in any way, except as mothers.
 
The Church highly esteems adoption. After all, Joseph was not the biological father of Jesus. Adoption is a wonderful gift to a child. I know many who have adopted and the joy it brings to them. All God’s children are loved and need a mother and a father.
 
I agree with Lilder. I am listening to the program on re-run. Karl Keating was addressing the issues of in vitro and other test tube means of conception.

He said that adoption is an option for those who can’t concieve without the risky scientific, potentially immoral procedures.

He points out the Church’s pastoral approaches to couples who can’t concieve naturally. Also they mentioned the Pope Paul VI Institute in Omaha.
 
If the Church didn’t place much value on women who couldn’t have kids, then the good Sisters wouldn’t be of much use, and neither would us guys for that matter.

Please don’t let a misunderstanding drive your friend from the faith. The Pope wrote and encyclical on the incredible value of women, and if I wasn’t such an amateur apologist, I could give you the name. And if I was really good, I could give you the Latin name!

Somebody out there help me out!
 
Jim O,

*Mulieris Dignitatum *that’s the name of JPII’s encyclical on the Dignity of Women.

I would like to read these words of Keating. I sincerely doubt that is what he is trying to say. Perhaps he needs to chose his words more carefully.

What gives you the impression that Keating doesn’t appreciate female involvement in the church except as mothers?

Or is it just that he stands by the all-male ordination?
 
Black Jaque:
Jim O,

I would like to read these words of Keating. I sincerely doubt that is what he is trying to say. Perhaps he needs to chose his words more carefully.

What gives you the impression that Keating doesn’t appreciate female involvement in the church except as mothers?

Or is it just that he stands by the all-male ordination?
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Maybe the problem is that some people need to listen more carefully! :yup:

Yesterday’s show is available for online listening or for downloading at catholic.com/radio/calive.asp
 
Black Jaque:
Jim O,

*Mulieris Dignitatum *that’s the name of JPII’s encyclical on the Dignity of Women.

I would like to read these words of Keating. I sincerely doubt that is what he is trying to say. Perhaps he needs to chose his words more carefully.

What gives you the impression that Keating doesn’t appreciate female involvement in the church except as mothers?

Or is it just that he stands by the all-male ordination?
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All-male ordination has nothing to do with it. I don’t think women should be ordained either!

I need to get a copy of *Mulieris Dignitatum *. I know I have a lot of issues and I think it could help clear them up.

The more this goes on, I’m thinking about leaving the Church!
 
LabChick,

Don’t let the posts on these forums bother you. As I stated in another post, here we have a forum for all these amateur apologists to practice. It’s like the “Coach” has finally put me in the game after sitting the bench for so long. In our excitement to express our opinions or convert somebody, I’m afraid many of us have forgotten the Gospel message. Besides, I attended a communications workshop recently and it has been shown that e-mailing (which this essentially is) is one of the worst modes of communication and the most likely to result in a misinterpretation of the person’s intentions. Oh well!

Blessings,

Jim
 
Karl Keating:
Yesterday’s show is available for online listening or for downloading at catholic.com/radio/calive.asp
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Thanks for the link.
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LabChick:
While driving to work yesterday, I heard the guest on Catholic Answers Live (Kyle or Carl ?? something) tell a caller who asked about infertility that women who aren’t able to have children are not as valuable in the eyes of the Catholic Church as women who reproduce multiple times.
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I listened to the show. The question occurred about 14 minutes into the show. Your statement is utter BS. He said nothing of the kind.
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LabChick:
From listening to the program and reading his newsletter, I do feel that Mr. Keating frequently makes an issue that women should not be included in the Church in any way, except as mothers.
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Again, I’ve read enough if his writing to know that charge is utterly groundless.
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LabChick:
The more this goes on, I’m thinking about leaving the Church!
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I don’t know if you came to the forum with a pre-conceived political agenda, or what. It seems like you are simply trying to create a stir, rather than ask genuine questions.
 
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rfk:
Thanks for the link.

I listened to the show. The question occurred about 14 minutes into the show. Your statement is utter BS. He said nothing of the kind.

Again, I’ve read enough if his writing to know that charge is utterly groundless.

I don’t know if you came to the forum with a pre-conceived political agenda, or what. It seems like you are simply trying to create a stir, rather than ask genuine questions.
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My my…I just registered so I could pose a question about a family member. Is this mudslinging indicative of how the forums usually are??? It might be amusing if this were Jerry Springer.
😛 Just kidding.
 
Bob,
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rfk:
I listened to the show. The question occurred about 14 minutes into the show. Your statement is utter BS. He said nothing of the kind.
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My statement is not “utter BS.” In fact, if you’ll pay attention, it’s not even a statement. It was a question. I was asking if I heard something correctly. I did not. I admit I misheard.
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rfk:
Again, I’ve read enough if his writing to know that charge is utterly groundless.
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Again, I misheard. I confused Karl Keating with someone who has a similar (to me) voice and name. My radio is not equipped with a television screen, so sometimes it’s difficult to tell the difference between speakers on different programs if they are similar in voice.
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rfk:
I don’t know if you came to the forum with a pre-conceived political agenda, or what. It seems like you are simply trying to create a stir, rather than ask genuine questions.
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I have no political agenda. In fact, I don’t even like politics of any kind. I am merely voicing my opinion and asking for clarification. I was under the impression that is what the forums are for.
 
Lab Chick,

The more what goes on?

I’m confused. I certainly hope you wouldn’t leave the church on account of some sour internet thread.

I’ve listened to and read Karl Keating enough to know that your questions just didn’t sound like him.

That’s all.

And it appears it wasn’t him.

I’m curious still what statements you are getting these impressions from. In the eyes of God, a woman and a man are equally cherished - the Church teaches that.

I’ve seen some people insist that the Church should teach that man and woman are the same - which it appears not to be your position. I just wanted to clarify that.

Finally, yes, get Mulieris Dignitatum.
 
RFK…wow! Personally, that sounded a bit like a personal attack.

Lab Chick asked a question. She came to others in this community for explination, guidance maybe.

Please re-read your post. See how harsh it could come across and ask yourself if this is the face of the Church you want to present to someone that is searching.

And if she did come with a “pre-conceived political agenda”, I doubt this ‘rebutal’ would change anyones mind.

Just trying to keep the peace…
🙂 Lilder
 
“I confused Karl Keating with someone who has a similar (to me) voice.”

No one has a voice like Karl’s! 😃
 
from the Catechism

2379 The Gospel shows that physical sterility is not an absolute evil. Spouses who still suffer from infertility after exhausting legitimate medical procedures should unite themselves with the Lord’s Cross, the source of all spiritual fecundity. They can give expression to their generosity by adopting abandoned children or performing demanding services for others.

from the Vatican, on infertility

[CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH

INSTRUCTION
ON RESPECT FOR HUMAN LIFE IN ITS ORIGIN
AND ON THE DIGNITY OF PROCREATION
REPLIES TO CERTAIN QUESTIONS OF THE DAY](http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/c...h_doc_19870222_respect-for-human-life_en.html)
  1. THE SUFFERING CAUSED BY INFERTILITY IN MARRIAGE
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The suffering of spouses who cannot have children or who are afraid of bringing a handicapped child into the world is a suffering that everyone must understand and properly evaluate.
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On the part of the spouses, the desire for a child is natural: it expresses the vocation to fatherhood and motherhood inscribed in conjugal love. This desire can be even stronger if the couple is affected by sterility which appears incurable. Nevertheless, marriage does not confer upon the spouses the right to have a child, but only the right to perform those natural acts which are per se ordered to procreation.(57) A true and proper right to a child would be contrary to the child’s dignity and nature. The child is not an object to which one has a right, nor can he be considered as an object of ownership: rather, a child is a gift, “the supreme gift” (58) and the most gratuitous gift of marriage, and is a living testimony of the mutual giving of his parents. For this reason, the child has the right, as already mentioned, to be the fruit of the specific act of the conjugal love of his parents; and he also has the right to be respected as a person from the moment of his conception.
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Nevertheless, whatever its cause or prognosis, sterility is certainly a difficult trial. The community of believers is called to shed light upon and support the suffering of those who are unable to fulfill their legitimate aspiration to motherhood and fatherhood. Spouses who find themselves in this sad situation are called to find in it an opportunity for sharing in a particular way in the Lord’s Cross, the source of spiritual fruitfulness. Sterile couples must not forget that “even when procreation is not possible, conjugal life does not for this reason lose its value. Physical sterility in fact can be for spouses the occasion for other important services to the life of the human person, for example, adoption, various forms of educational work, and assistance to other families and to poor or handicapped children”.(59) Many researchers are engaged in the fight against sterility. While fully safeguarding the dignity of human procreation, some have achieved results which previously seemed unattainable. Scientists therefore are to be encouraged to continue their research with the aim of preventing the causes of sterility and of being able to remedy them so that sterile couples will be able to procreate in full respect for their own personal dignity and that of the child to be born.
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If you are having issues with how you understand the Church views women, I HIGHLY second the reccomendation to read Mulieris Dignitatum. Also, if you happen to have a FAMILIA group in your area, this will give you wonderful insight. (year 2 is when Mulieris Dignitatum is studied) You will surely feel very priveledged to be a Catholic woman, no matter what your state in life, afterwards..
 
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