Information on Byzantine Chant

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Ora_et_Labora_1

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Though I am a Roman Catholic I tend to prefer Byzantine chant over Gregorian. Not that I don’t like the latter, but there is something about the former that moves me more (perhaps the “wailing” and streching out of certain syllables hits close to my cultural roots: I’m Iberian). What I would like to know if there are any books and/or websites that explain this sort of chant. Anything from history, to the kinds of tones, etc., I want to learn about it. Anyone have any suggestions?
 
The specific tradition of byzantine chant makes a HUGE difference…

Byzantine Slavonic sounds very little like middle-eastern…

And Greek is somewhere between, and Coptic is very close to Greek, but not the same. Russian Slavonic is different than Ruthenian or Ukrainian, subtly, but noticeably.

So which tradition do you want?

The one unifying element I’m aware of is the use of 8 tones throughout Byzantine liturgical chant, but the specific details do vary from place to place, and in the Ruthenian, from when collected, and where, as to specifics of the melodies for each.
 
Sorry, I forget there are all these different traditions in the East. Well, so far I’ve heard greek and romanian (does this fall under slavonic?), and they each have a unique quality I like. I’ve yet to hear coptic or russian or any others. Are they available on youtube?
I’ve heard Ambrosian chant, an old Western kind apparently, and it is shares a lot with Eastern chant.
 
I heard Old Roman Chant was more like Ambrosian, and thus, Eastern sounding. The story went some French king, not Charlemagne(or was it?*) asked the Pope to send people trained in chant to teach his court, or whoever. The French musicians couldn’t understand it or they didn’t like it and made the chants to suit their liking. When the Roman Rite spread, this Carolingian chant spread, and this is our Gregorian chant- not exactly Roman. To me, “Gregorian” chant sounds most Eastern during the Easter season.

How does the tone system work? Is it like the mode system? You can use technical terms, I have a music background.
  1. Ionian- major scale
  2. Dorian- This mode is used in “What do we do with a drunken sailor?”
  3. Phrygian mode- the “Arabic” or “Spanish” mode.
    4.Lydian- a jazzy mode
  4. Mixolydian- also jazzy sounding
  5. Aeolian- minor scale
  6. Locrian mode- has the diabolus in musica, is unstable and never used.
    5.*
 
The modes I posted are modes from C to C, D to D, on the piano, played without black keys. I understand the church modes are different.
 
One location not mentioned as yet. Go to www.metropolitancantorinstitute.org . There are all the arrangements for various liturgies within the Ruthenian(Byzantine) . You can find various chants to listen to. You can also go to Byzantine Seminary Press(byzantinepress@verizon.net) and order(for about $25.00), 7 CD;s of music for the whole year, with all different tones. This should give you all that you want.
 
Well, so far I’ve heard greek and romanian (does this fall under slavonic?), and they each have a unique quality I like.

**The Romanian and Bulgarian Churches, while they have their own chants for the ordinary hymns of the various services, use the Byzantine (or neo-Byzantine, as some would say) Octoechos for the propers, as do the various Arabic Churches that follow the Byzantine liturgical use.

The various Slavic churches (Russian, Ukrainian, Ruthenian, Serbian) have their own chant traditions, mostly diatonic.

But no, Romanian does not fall under Slavonic; the language itself is a Romance language, as the name would imply. The ecclesiastical vocabluary is a curious blend of Slav and Latin roots, but the Latin clearly predominates. **
 
Ak_Fossil said:
One location not mentioned as yet. Go to www.metropolitancantorinstitute.org . There are all the arrangements for various liturgies within the Ruthenian(Byzantine) . You can find various chants to listen to. You can also go to Byzantine Seminary Press(byzantinepress@verizon.net) and order(for about $25.00), 7 CD;s of music for the whole year, with all different tones. This should give you all that you want.
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The “music” found on the MCI webisite IS NOT TRADITIONAL RUTHENIAN CHANT.

It is music that has been re-written to fit modern American English and is NOT sung in the churches in Europe. It is also NOT sung in many of the churches in the USA either.

You can also go to www.patronagechurch.com to find more traditional Ruthenian Chant.
 
Ora_et_Labora said:
Though I am a Roman Catholic I tend to prefer Byzantine chant over Gregorian. Not that I don’t like the latter, but there is something about the former that moves me more (perhaps the “wailing” and streching out of certain syllables hits close to my cultural roots: I’m Iberian). What I would like to know if there are any books and/or websites that explain this sort of chant. Anything from history, to the kinds of tones, etc., I want to learn about it. Anyone have any suggestions?
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If you go to this website: oltvweb.com/christmas_hymns_sampler.php

You can watch a brief clip of the seminarians of Blessed Theodore Romzha Greek Catholic Seminary in Uzhorod, Ukraine as they sing various hymns and chants for Christmas.

This choir was on tour here in the USA during September and October. There are 8 CD’s and a few DVD’s of this choir singing TRADITIONAL Ruthenian chants and hymns for the various Liturgical seasons as well as the Divine Liturgy. The CD’s & DVD’s are available through the website.

Hope this helps…
 
Something I forgot to mention:

Byzantine (or neo-Byzantine) chant is NOT based on the Western equal-tempered scale. Its intervals are NOT equal; frequently there are notes that would fall between the cracks of two adjacent keys on the piano. Attempts to use western staff notation for it can only be approximations.

The Romanian Orthodox Church is unique in publishing its official chant books in staff and Byzantine (neumatic) notation simultaneously. The neumes are written above the staff.
 
Patchunky said:
The “music” found on the MCI webisite IS NOT TRADITIONAL RUTHENIAN CHANT.

It is music that has been re-written to fit modern American English and is NOT sung in the churches in Europe. It is also NOT sung in many of the churches in the USA either.
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The truth is that the MCI website is a tremendous resource for traditional Ruthenian Chant. The Slavonic language irmologia of Bokshaj and of Papp are there, as well as “Plain Chant” and "“Basic Chant” of Sokol. The "recorded music section includes the full Papp Irmologion, in Slavonic from Presov. And yes there is also a wealth of material - Divine Liturgy, vespers, matins, hymns - in English.
 
dvdjs said:
The truth is that the MCI website is a tremendous resource for traditional Ruthenian Chant. The Slavonic language irmologia of Bokshaj and of Papp are there, as well as “Plain Chant” and "“Basic Chant” of Sokol. The "recorded music section includes the full Papp Irmologion, in Slavonic from Presov. And yes there is also a wealth of material - Divine Liturgy, vespers, matins, hymns - in English.
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The REAL TRUTH is that they are “unofficial” as per their own wording on the website.

The English translations were written in 2005 by someone who has since been removed from the Byzantine Catholic church.

The Slavonic texts are all from European sources and are the most accurate available in this country.
 
Patchunky said:
The REAL TRUTH is that they are “unofficial” as per their own wording on the website.
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Yes, the MCI has the following disclaimer:

“The texts, music and commentary on this website were prepared by the Metropolitan Cantor Institute of the Byzantine Catholic Archeparchy of Pittsburgh. They are approved for provisional use in the Archeparchy, but are otherwise unofficial and should be considered superseded by any materials promulgated by the Council of Hierarchs.”

The site includes materilas promulagted by the Coucil of Hierarchs as well much other material. It is fairly clear from your earlier posts that much of this other material belongs to the category of “traditional Ruthenian chant”. So what is your point?
The Slavonic texts are all from European sources and are the most accurate available in this country.
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Your point again eludes me.
 
The best site for anyone interested in any type of chant:

Liturgica.com

If you’re Iberian, how do you feel about Mozarabic chant? Thats my personal favorite.
 
Patchunky said:
The REAL TRUTH is that they are “unofficial” as per their own wording on the website.

** The English translations were written in 2005 by someone who has since been removed from the Byzantine Catholic church.**

The Slavonic texts are all from European sources and are the most accurate available in this country.
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Actually a number of the controversial translations were considerably prior to 2005.

And who is this person who wrote the translations and is not in the Byzantine Catholic Church? Care to name names?

The translations, regardless of whomever actually did them, were approved by the current proto-syncellus of the Eparchy of Passaic, Bishop Andrew.
 
SVP said:
Actually a number of the controversial translations were considerably prior to 2005.

And who is this person who wrote the translations and is not in the Byzantine Catholic Church? Care to name names?

The translations, regardless of whomever actually did them, were approved by the current proto-syncellus of the Eparchy of Passaic, Bishop Andrew.
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Moreover, the current “questionable translations” are approved and promulgated by the Council of Hierarchs of the Byzantine Ruthenian Metropolitan Church… as shown in the front of the people’s book:
Divine Liturgies People's Book:
FOREWORD
This edition of the Divine Liturgy with propers and commons has been prepared for the use of the faithful in the Byzantine Ruthenian Metropolitan Church of Pittsburgh by the Intereparchial Liturgical Commission and the Intereparchial Music Commission. The text has been translated from the Greek original, compared with the Church Slavonic.

This new translation seeks to be consistent in rendering biblical and technical terms, faithful to the vocabulary and thought of the text’s original context in the patristic period, but also accessible to a contemporary American congregation. In a few instances, textual criticism based on the witness of manuscripts has guided the translation.

In general, translations of biblical quotes and allusions have been guided by The New American Bible (1970-1991) and by The Psalms (The Grail, 1963). In practice, biblical allusions have usually required fresh translations both to capture the distinctive readings of the Septuagint Old Testament and to accommodate the new context of these biblical texts in the Liturgy.

The musical settings are based on the Ruthenian tradition that has been handed down from one generation to another. After extensive research, discussion, and detailed comparisons of various written and oral sources, the Intereparchial Music Commission has compiled the plainchant settings of the Byzantine Liturgy found in this book. The musical renderings of historic scholars have been carefully adapted to accomodate the new English translation provided by the Intereparchial Liturgical Commission.

This book is approved for use in churches of the Byzantine Metropolitan Church Sui Juris of Pittsburgh, U.S.A., promulgated on the feast of the Theophany of our Lord, God, and Savior Jesus Christ, January 6, 2007. On and after the feast of the Holy and Pre-eminent apostles Peter and Paul, June 29, 2007, this text and its attendant music will be the sole liturgical text for the celebration of the Divine Liturgies of our Holy Fathers John Chrysostom and Basil the Great.

Most Reverend Basil M. Schott, O.F.M., Metropolitan of Pittsburgh
Most Reverend Andrew Pataki, Bishop of Passaic
Most Reverend William C. Skurla, Bishop of Van Nuys
Most Reverend John M. Kudrick, Bishop of Parma
​
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​

Not everyone is happy with the translations, nor everyone happy with the adaptations of the tones. Not every cantor can do the new tones. It takes time to get them down, memorized, and comfortable. They are closer than what I’ve been hearing for the last 20 years have been to what is in the older texts. It’s time for those who dislike them to swallow their pride and obey the bishops, and to complain to the bishops rather than publicly attacking the reputations of the bishops and their assigned assistants.
 
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