Infused righteousness

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Erick_Ybarra

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Ok, I’ve been reading well enough Catholic material to understand that the main difference between protestants and catholics on justification is this issue of infusion.

Catholics believe that the baptized are infused with God’s righteousness because in and through baptism the inner renewal and sanctification of the human being is happening, a crucifixion or death of the old person and the resurrection of the new person to live to God.

And this disposition is what God sees in us and calls us “JUST”.

I was wondering, do we say the same thing about the OT Saints? In other words, was Abel crucified with Christ and raised with Christ as the foundation of an infused righteousness which justified him in the act of bringing a sacrifice?

OR any other old testament example.
 
Before you launch into the Old Testament …I would mention:

Paul speaks in his second letter to the Corinthians (5:17) and in his letter to the Galatians (6:15) of what the person who is in Christ is:

a new creation
 
Oh yes. No question. I was just wondering since the infusion of righteousness comes through baptismal regeneration, if the old testament saints were so likewise justified
 
As to the those who were from before Christ’s coming – one thing I think one can say from the get-go is that such was a rather different matter than that of who with the advent of Christ by grace…by faith and baptism --by the death and resurrection of Christ --became really a new creation (and just as God made the first creation and called what he made to be good --good. So too did with the “new creation” of each person which he effected -he also called what it was…but anyhow that is mixing threads).

For one thing – they in general were not able basically to come into the beatific vision – not until Christ came for them.

jimmyakin.com/jesus-descent-into-hell
 
With the coming of Christ --culminating with his death on the cross and is resurrection – came salvation in the full sense of the word. With all the full wonder of the splendid realities involved.
 
Erick_Ybarra said:
Ok, I’ve been reading well enough Catholic material to understand that the main difference between protestants and catholics on justification is this issue of infusion.

Catholics believe that the baptized are infused with God’s righteousness because in and through baptism the inner renewal and sanctification of the human being is happening, a crucifixion or death of the old person and the resurrection of the new person to live to God.

And this disposition is what God sees in us and calls us “JUST”.

I was wondering, do we say the same thing about the OT Saints? In other words, was Abel crucified with Christ and raised with Christ as the foundation of an infused righteousness which justified him in the act of bringing a sacrifice?

OR any other old testament example.
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Yes, anyone who is saved at any time requires the transforming Indwelling of the Holy Spirit. This is precisely why the OT saints are called upon as witnesses in the NT (e.g. Rom 4 & Heb 11). The key distinction is that they were not fully aware of the ‘mechanics’ of this the way we are who live in the NT dispensation.
 
Erick_Ybarra said:
Ok, I’ve been reading well enough Catholic material to understand that the main difference between protestants and catholics on justification is this issue of infusion.

Catholics believe that the baptized are infused with God’s righteousness because in and through baptism the inner renewal and sanctification of the human being is happening, a crucifixion or death of the old person and the resurrection of the new person to live to God.

And this disposition is what God sees in us and calls us "JUST".
Click to expand...
providing we remain in sanctifying grace. i.e. sans mortal sin.
EY:
I was wondering, do we say the same thing about the OT Saints? In other words, was Abel crucified with Christ and raised with Christ as the foundation of an infused righteousness which justified him in the act of bringing a sacrifice?

OR any other old testament example.
Click to expand...
Before Jesus did His work, no one from the OT went to heaven. Heaven was closed as a result of Adam’s sin. As the NT taught, the blood of bulls and goats (i.e. OT animal sacrifices) didn’t forgive sins nor could they. Nor could sins be forgiven in the OT by any OT means. If they could there would have been no need for Jesus to die for our sins. The best that could be expected for the good people of the OT at death, is Abraham’s bosom when they died, which was not heaven and not hell.

When Jesus died, Peter said, Jesus went to preach to the souls in prison,** [1 Pet 3:19…] **Obviously there is no need for Jesus to preach to the damned. So those souls were in a place where they couldn’t get out, until Jesus released them, but obviously, if Jesus could preach to these souls, they weren’t dead in the sense we think of death. These souls had memory intellect and will, fully operational in the afterlife, so that they could process where they were, who Jesus is, and understand what Jesus was teaching them. As an aside, souls in hell are also fully aware of where they are, because they also have memory intellect and will fully operational in hell. But they have no hope of getting out. (Luke 16:19-31).
 
I don’t understand. Catholics teach that we are justified by the baptismal regeneration of the holy spirit which is based off being crucified with christ and risen together with him. Otherwise termed as the infusion of righteousness.

We believe Abraham was justified before God? So doesn’t that mean he was crucified and raised with christ?
 
Persons who had died prior to the advent of Christ and his death and resurrection…and thus the prior to baptism…

were waiting for the Christ…

Waiting for his coming to them after his death on the cross – for him to bring them into the fullness of life in him.

633 Scripture calls the abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, “hell” - Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek - because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God.480 Such is the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they await the Redeemer: which does not mean that their lot is identical, as Jesus shows through the parable of the poor man Lazarus who was received into “Abraham’s bosom”:481 "It is precisely these holy souls, who awaited their Savior in Abraham’s bosom, whom Christ the Lord delivered when he descended into hell."482 Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him.483

634 "The gospel was preached even to the dead."484 The descent into hell brings the Gospel message of salvation to complete fulfillment. This is the last phase of Jesus’ messianic mission, a phase which is condensed in time but vast in its real significance: the spread of Christ’s redemptive work to all men of all times and all places, for all who are saved have been made sharers in the redemption.

635 Christ went down into the depths of death so that "the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live."485 Jesus, “the Author of life”, by dying destroyed "him who has the power of death, that is, the devil, and [delivered] all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong bondage."486 Henceforth the risen Christ holds “the keys of Death and Hades”, so that "at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth."487

(CCC link above)
 
Erick_Ybarra said:
I don’t understand. Catholics teach that we are justified by the baptismal regeneration of the holy spirit which is based off being crucified with christ and risen together with him. Otherwise termed as the infusion of righteousness.

We believe Abraham was justified before God? So doesn’t that mean he was crucified and raised with christ?
Click to expand...
In particular I would think such is referring to those who are Christians or who are at least after the death and resurrection of Christ

“Dying and rising with Christ” occurs in faith and baptism and is what usually takes place for those --after the historical event.

Though God of course can give the life of grace to one “prior” to such – for he is outside of time.

As to exactly what this could mean prior (OT) to the advent of Christ – I do not have a systematic answer for you hic et nunc (things are quite different now with Christ!). But one could call in with this question to Jimmy Akin on the show this Thrusday --second hour (7 ET). catholic.com/radio
 
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