Innocent children going to hell

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From th Council of Carthage XVI, approved by Pope St. Innocent and Pope St. Zosimus as a rule of the faith includes the canon:

“It has been decided likewise that if anyone says that for this reason the Lord said: “In my house there are many mansions”: that it might be understood that in the kingdom of heaven there will be some middle place or some place anywhere where happy infants live who departed from this life without baptism, without which they cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven, which is life eternal, let him be anathema. For when the Lord says: “Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he shall not enter into the kingdom of God” [John 3:5], what Catholic will doubt that he will be a partner of the devil who has not deserved to be a coheir of Christ? For he who lacks the right part will without doubt run into the **left **[cf. Matt. 25:41,46].”

Council of Lyons II (1274):

“The souls of those who die in mortal sin or with original sin only, however, immediately descend to hell, to be punished however with disparate punishments.”

The Council of Florence defined the same thing
 
People keep jumping on me for “contradicting the present magisterium” when I am really just providing Church teaching. Ye this has made me doubt my faith, but the ways of God are not our ways.

“The Council of Florence also defined, in Session VI, the following: ‘But the souls of those who depart this life in actual mortal sin, or in original sin alone, go down straightaway to hell to be punished, but with unequal pains.’ This same doctrine is found in the Confession of Faith which was given to the Eastern Emperor Michael Paleologus in 1267 by Pope Clement IV, and which was accepted by this same emperor in the presence of Pope Gregory X at the Second Council of Lyons in 1274. The same doctrine is found as well in the Profession of Faith given to the Greeks by Pope Gregory XIII, and in that which was prescribed for the oriental schismatics by Popes Urban VIII and Benedict XIV.” (MHT Seminary Newsletter, January 2006)
 
This should make us try to evangelize and baptize people all the more. We all ARE Adam and Eve, in a sense. WE did that sin, we touched the apple. That’s Trent’s teaching. It makes sense to me now. God can seem scary, but it only makes us be less lax
 
aquinasg said:
This should make us try to evangelize and baptize people all the more. We all ARE Adam and Eve, in a sense. WE did that sin, we touched the apple. That’s Trent’s teaching. It makes sense to me now. God can seem scary, but it only makes us be less lax
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God is not and never has been scary to me.

People who presume to speak for God, on the other hand… :rolleyes:
 
aquinasg said:
I just presenting Church teaching, gosh. No insults please
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No you are presenting Aquinasg’s teaching.

The Church plainly states that GOD IS NOT BOUND BY THE SACRAMENTS!!

We have no idea what happens to a an un-baptized child, and I for one believe in a loving & merciful God.
 
I’ve already responded to that. It applies only to adults. Fine, ignore all the evidence I provided.
 
Oneofthewomen said:
We have no idea what happens to a an un-baptized child, and I for one believe in a loving & merciful God.
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If they are unbaptized by US ON EARTH, we don’t know. If they are unbaptized PERIOD, then yes we do know. I believe Jesus baptizes them and teaches them the fundamentals of the faith before the die somehow
 
I didn’t mean to upset you. I was upset over this earlier today, but that thread has been removed :rolleyes:

We all are guilty of Adam’s sin, so we all deserve punishment for it. But God IS merciful and again I think He saves all babies.
 
Daizies said:
I am guessing that your sister in law’s preacher used verses like these:

or one of the similar passages from Leviticus and Numbers.

My response would be from Ezekiel 18:1-30, especially verse 20:

I hope this is of some help.
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  • The Old Testament was written in The Teaching Culture of 2500 years Ago, and not in modern English. God has Never killed Children; That was the Teaching Culture Wording, Hebrew language, of those Uneducated times.
    Code: 
                                                                                                                         Only  God  Judges   Saves,  Decides;   NEVER  a  Human  Being,  nor  misunderstood verses.   That  preacher  should  be  asked  if  he  knows  more  than  God?    It's  is,  Man's  Idea,  the  Opposite  of  God,  His  Love.
 
aquinasg said:
I’m just presenting Church teaching, gosh. No insults please
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The Church teaches no such thing. God is Love, and would Never send anyone to hell because of Someone Else’s Mistakes. The Church teaches Babies almost Certainly go directly to Heavem With Him, because They have not Sinned.
 
AntalKalnoky said:
The Church teaches no such thing. God is Love, and would Never send anyone to hell because of Someone Else’s Mistakes. The Church teaches Babies almost Certainly go directly to Heavem With Him, because They have not Sinned.
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Haven’t I provided enough evidence? The Council of Trent teaches that we are all guilty in a sense for Adam’s fall because we are his flesh. Babies deserve punishment for this sin, but again I think God will be merciful to all of them
 
AntalKalnoky said:
**The Church **teaches Babies almost **Certainly **go directly to Heavem With Him, because They have not Sinned.
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The Church never has taught such a thing. WE DON’T KNOW WHAT HAPPENS TO THEM. God wishes to reveal His justice as well as His mercy. All we can do is hope and pray
 
I was raised around similar attitudes. “Only God knows if the child had lived would he have been saved. There are dead children in hell.”

This sentiment is one of many that keeps people from Christ.

Didn’t Gandhi say, “Your Christ I like, his followers…not so much.”
 
Careful… while no innocents go to hell, no unbaptized go to heaven (John 3:5).

Hence, the Church has perenially held, in the Patristic era, through the Middle Ages, and until very shortly ago (see this summary: newadvent.org/cathen/09256a.htm) that taking Christ seriously when He states that NO man is saved without baptism, requires that we posit the existence of Limbo. Indeed, the only real issue over this teaching over the centuries has been the nature of the loss suffered by the souls of the unbaptized who are guilty of no personal sin.

Personally, I side with the Church Fathers, with Scripture, and with the common teaching of great saints and theologians in asserting the reality of Original Sin and its consequences.

Aside from a mere ipse dixit by recent (i.e., the last 40-50 years) authors, there is no authority in Scripture or Tradition or from the usual sources of Theology, to support a conclusion that God dispenses with His law in this case.

To deny Limbo is to denigrate the necessity of infant baptism and the real effects of Original Sin (i.e., utter separation from God).
 
Baptism is something we seek, directly or through our proxy - most cases our parents. It is choosing to be a child of God. When an unbaptized child dies, either in utero or after birth, we have no way of knowing whether God gives the child an option to make an informed choice for Him. The Church already accepts Baptism of Desire and Baptism of Blood. This may be another form of Baptism that can only be administered by God. The same is true of one who is born with the mental incapacity to make an informed choice and whose parents never had them baptized. Many non-Catholics do not believe in the sacramental effect of Baptism. To them, it is simply a ritual that has no real effect on the soul. In St. Faustina’s Diary, we learn that God’s greastest attribute is His mercy. The notion of Limbo is more legalistic than a recognition of God’s merciful love. If God is omnipotent, and loves us with an infinite love, and if Our Father loves us with the same love with which He loves Jesus (see John 17), under what theory of merciful love would He force an innocent person to remain separated from Him for eternity?
 
:bible1:
Even so it is
**NOT **
the will of your
Father, Who is in heaven,
that one of these little ones should perish.
- Jesus
- Matthew 18:10, 14

+Below is a quote from The Catechism of the Catholic Church . . . which clearly delineates and identifies what qualifies as . . . “baptism” . . . which includes the . . . baptism of blood . . .** baptism of desire** . . . and the merciful loving ❤️ heart of God toward little children . . .

****. . . :coffeeread: . . . ****
CATECHISM
OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
Section Two
The Seven Sacraments of the Church

CHAPTER ONE
THE SACRAMENTS OF CHRISTIAN INITIATION

VI. The Necessity of Baptism

**1258 **
The Church has always held the firm conviction that those who suffer death for the sake of the faith without having received Baptism are baptized by their death for and with Christ. This Baptism of blood, like the desire for Baptism, brings about the fruits of Baptism without being a sacrament.

**1259 **
For catechumens who die before their Baptism, their explicit desire to receive it, together with repentance for their sins, and charity, assures them the salvation that they were not able to receive through the sacrament.
**
1260 **
"Since **Christ **died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the **Holy Spirit **offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery."63 **Every man who is ignorant of the **Gospel of Christ ****and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity.

**1261 **
As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy ❤️ of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy ❤️ of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus’ tenderness toward children which caused him to say: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,"64 allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church’s call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism.

:compcoff: Link: usccb.org/catechism/text/pt2sect2.shtml#art1​
. . . all for Jesus+
. . . thank You Precious Lord
. . .our God and our Saviour+
. . . our All+​
 
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