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Jaguar
Guest
Do the saints pray for us regardless if they are asked to or not? Or, do our specific prayers to them require them to go before God in a more effective way, for us as individuals?
Thanks!
Thanks!
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allischalmers
Guest
The saint in heaven do only one thing, that is worship God !
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GandalfTheWhite
Guest
…NOT!
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Todd_Easton
Guest
It would seem that the saints intercede for us even if we don’t specifically ask them to.
In 2 Maccabees 15:12-14, Onias and Jeremias are described as praying for the Jewish community with no indication that anyone asked for their prayers.
In 2 Kings 13:21, Elisha raised a dead man to life with no indication that anyone asked for his prayers.
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Jaguar
Guest
I should have made it clear that my post was for a Catholic answer … but thanks anyway!
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Praetorian
Guest
Yes, it is a saints duty to intercede, IF you pray to them. A commom misconception made by Protestants is that we “worship” the saints. That is very incorrect. We figure “The More The Merrier,” therefore we pray to the saints for them to intercede to God, and now we have TWO people praying for us. Saints are not Gods (though many Baptists think we think of them as Gods.) They are followers of Christ who have lived lives the way God would want us to. Being a “Saint” means that you go directly to Heaven. So there are countless Saints that are even unknown to the Church. My personal favorite Saint, and Patron, is St. Jude. Pick a Saint that had a similar life that you have. For instance if you are striving for Purity, select the Virgin Mary, or St. Joseph. MAke them your patron and devote to them. You will be amazed at how the Holy Spirit will change your life through the interceded prayers!
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paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
Jesus, as I understand, was a Jewish Ribbi and as per OTBible he only believed in ONENESS of GodAllahYHWH and he never doubted in it, until he disappered from the scene.Jesus left no written Word of GodAllahYHWH revealed on him, or authenticated by him when he last departed from Galilee. Then as Catholic inform us Paul took over ; and then as I understand he imported certain creeds at Rome which were later termed as Trinity. Please don’t mind, thus Paul opened a Window, and ONENESS got transformed into three persons in one, and one in three persons. Then our Catholic friends inducted Mary into it, yet they kept the name Trinity, she was a holy intercessor mothe of Jesus. Then the window was widened and became a door or a wide-open gate, and now innumerable intercessor or saints have been lead into this gate. The name would still remain Trinity or Unity of God; but this is none of my business to point out, my Catholic friends are free to believe whatever they like, no compulsion. This is just my opinion.I love Jesus and Mary.
Thanks
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Proletarian
Guest
That’s a nice story paarsurrey. Ive got another for you. Its about a man who lived in the seventh century. He was a good and noble man, his only problem was that he craved power. He decided that the best way to gain authority was to claim to have received a vision from God, and to create a cult around himself… Im sure you know how the rest of the story goes.
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paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
Well I think you have got it wrong, so I would revise it with little changes, the story is perhaps like this:
Its about a man, named say Paul who lived in the time of Jesus. When Jesus departed from the scene from Galilee ( after the event of Crucifixion in which he survived and Jews could not got him killed on Cross, and Jesus set off to India to the lost tribes of Israel and died there naturally and is buried there) this man Paul hitherto an enemy of Jesus , his only problem was that he craved power. He decided that the best way to gain authority was to claim to have received a vision in which he has seen the risen Jesus ( while he was blind and could not see) and to create a cult around himself… Im sure you know how the rest of the story goes.
Please don’t mind, I have just completed the story in my own style which you are not under any compulsion to believe. Peace
Thanks
Deuteronomy 18:20-22. “But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death.”
Because of his righteousness, Jesus prayers were heard, and he was saved from killing on Cross.
Hebrews 5:7 (NIV)
7During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission.
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Proletarian
Guest
There’s only one problem with your theory paarsurrey; Paul did not gain any real power. He spent his entire life as a nomad, moving around preaching The Gospel, he accumulated no earthly treasures, he didn’t even acquire property to settle on. He died a painful death as a Martyr defending the beliefs of the Catholic Church. Mohamed on the other hand used his new found power to establish a military force by which he could impose his will upon others. He accumulated a wealth of earthly treasures, including a proverbial army of slaves, and dies a natural death at a ripe old age.
If St. Paul was the power hungry, self serving con-artist you make him out to be, he wasn’t very good at it.
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LordHaveMercy
Guest
from what i’ve gathered, it is held that the saints pray for the Christian community (Communion of Saints) and if you ask for their intersession they pray for you specifically. then again…someone with more authority should clear this up
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fellowChristian
Guest
If you believe in Scripture----
At the begining of the book of John we learn that the “Word” is someone, not something.
1 In the beginning was the Word: the Word was with God and the Word was God.
2 He was with God in the beginning.
3 Through him all things came into being, not one thing came into being except through him.
4 What has come into being in him was life, life that was the light of men;
5 and light shines in darkness, and darkness could not overpower it.
And if you look at the begining of the book of Genesis you’ll notice God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.
Genesis 1
1 In the beginning God created heaven, and earth.
God the Father
2 And the earth was void and empty, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the **spirit of God **moved over the waters.
**
God the Holy Spirit**
3 And God said: Be light made. And light was made.
The Word of God, before He came in the flesh, Jesus
26 God said, “Let us make man in **our **own image, in the likeness of ourselves, and let them be masters of the fish of the sea, the birds of heaven, the cattle, all the wild animals and all the creatures that creep along the ground.”
The Holy Trinity Trinity means three
Back to the book of John
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only** begotten of the Father,)** full of grace and truth.
15 John beareth witness of him, and crieth out, saying: This was he of whom I spoke: He that shall come after me, is preferred before me: because he was before me.
16 And of his fullness we all have received, and grace for grace.
17 For the law was given by Moses;** grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.**
18 No man hath seen God at any time: the only **begotten Son **who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Begotten =1. spawn, sire, breed, father, (esp. of a male parent) to procreate or generate (offspring).
Our children share our nature,they are human beings because we are.
Jesus shares His Fathers nature, He is God because the Father is God.
Jesus also shares His mothers nature,He is human because she is human.
All of us have one nature we are human.
Jesus has two natures He is both human and Divine. because of His parents.
And because Jesus is one with His Church His Church is both human and Divine.
We make up the body of His Church that is the human part. Jesus being one with His Church, and the Holy Spirit guiding it. That is the Divine part.
Through Scripture, Tradition and the Magisterium. This is how I know Jesus is both, at the same time, human and Divine.
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fellowChristian
Guest
Luke 3
**
Jesus Is Baptized**
21Now when all the people were baptized, Jesus was also baptized, and while He was praying, heaven was opened,
22 and the **Holy Spirit descended upon Him **in bodily form like a dove, and a voice came out of heaven, “**You are My beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased.” **
Genealogy of Jesus
23 When He began His ministry, Jesus Himself was about thirty years of age, being, as was supposed, the son of Joseph, the son of Eli,
38 the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.
**
Jesus Is Baptized**
21Now when all the people were baptized, Jesus was also baptized, and while He was praying, heaven was opened,
22 and the **Holy Spirit descended upon Him **in bodily form like a dove, and a voice came out of heaven, “**You are My beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased.” **
Genealogy of Jesus
23 When He began His ministry, Jesus Himself was about thirty years of age, being, as was supposed, the son of Joseph, the son of Eli,
38 the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.
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Michael_Francis
Guest
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Tomster
Guest
With regard to the intercession of the Saints let it suffice to note with St. Thomas Aquinas that “prayer may be offered to a person in two ways, either so that he himself my grant it, or that he may obtain the favor from another. In the first way we pray only to God, because all our prayers should be directed to obtaining grace and glory, which God alone gives, according to the Psalmist (83): ‘The Lord will give grace and glory.’ But in the second way we pray to the angels and Saints, not that through them God may know our petitions, but that through their prayers and merits our petitions may be effective. Hence we read in the Book of Revelation that, ‘the smoke of the incense of the prayers of the saints ascended up before God from the hand of the Angel.’ And this is manifest also from the method which the Church uses in praying; for we ask the Trinity to have mercy upon us; but we ask the Saints to pray for us.”
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heisenburg
Guest
The role of Intercessory prayer in heaven is the same as intercessory prayer by those on earth…
In Christ
- As a Christian still on earth, do you not pray for all souls to go to heaven? That God will help those in most need of his mercy?
- If someone asks you to pray for them, will you refuse them?
In Christ
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Tomster
Guest
allischalmers,
Scripture provides ample evidence that Christians can and should honor and imitate the saints - God’s friends in heaven. The following verses show that, far from denigrating or detracting from God’s own glory, when Christians honor and venerate (i.e. bestow glory and praise upon) the saints, they are following what God himself does.
In his book about the communion of saints, “Any friend of God’s is a friend of mine”, Patrick Madrid uses an analogy that is effective when talking to Protestants and other non-Catholics about why Catholics show honor and veneration to the Blessed Virgin Mary and the saints.
"The difference between Catholic and Protestant views on this subject can best be illustrated with this analogy. Imagine you are visiting a king. As you are being shown into his royal throne room you notice immediately the beautiful music lilting through the air. As you step into the chamber you are dazzled by the beauty of the place; gorgeous tapestries hung from the walls, stunning works of art adorning the room, sumptuous carpet covering the floor. You see men and women dressed in splendid apparel, their faces shining with happiness, the countenances beautiful to behold.
"As you progress further into the room, towards the king, you realize that the grandeur in the room grows accordingly. Finally, you reach the foot of the throne, and you gaze upon the king himself. He is magnificent, far more glorious than anything or anyone in the room.
"You’re overwhelmed by the regal beauty of his clothing, his crown, his scepter, his throne. But the king himself is the center, the focal point of all the glory that surrounds him. You can see that this king lavishes his wealth and love for beauty on everything that surrounds him.
"Now, imagine you’re entering the throne room of a different king.
"The first thing you notice is the abscence of sound. There is no music. There are no exquisite tapestries to catch your eye, no works of art, no jewel-studded carpet. There are no people here. In fact, there is literally nothing in the room that could conceivably distract your attention from the king, who sits in magnificent glory on his throne, at the far end of the room.
continued
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Tomster
Guest
"Why is this room bare of all ornaments and empty of all courtiers? Because this king is jealous of his glory. He doesn’t want you to become distracted by anything else - he wants you to see only himself. Which king is more glorious? Obviously the first. These two kings represent the two very different ways Catholics and Protestants understand God’s attitude toward his creatures.
"The example of the second king is characteristic of the Protestant conception. This king will allow nothing else to attract your attention, even for just a moment. True, he is a glorious king, but doesn’t his throne room seem drab and empty?
"The first attitude represents how Catholics see God and his attitude towards his friends. Because he himself is glorious, he lavishes his glory on everyone and everything that surrounds him. He is not worried that you will focus for a moment on the beauty of a tapestry or the splendid garb of one of his courtier friends. That you do marvel at these glorious peripheral items in itself gives greater honor and glory to him. The glory that suffuses everything around this king is evidence of his own glory. It highlights this fact and pulls our attention always and inexorably to the focus of all: him.
continued
"The example of the second king is characteristic of the Protestant conception. This king will allow nothing else to attract your attention, even for just a moment. True, he is a glorious king, but doesn’t his throne room seem drab and empty?
"The first attitude represents how Catholics see God and his attitude towards his friends. Because he himself is glorious, he lavishes his glory on everyone and everything that surrounds him. He is not worried that you will focus for a moment on the beauty of a tapestry or the splendid garb of one of his courtier friends. That you do marvel at these glorious peripheral items in itself gives greater honor and glory to him. The glory that suffuses everything around this king is evidence of his own glory. It highlights this fact and pulls our attention always and inexorably to the focus of all: him.
continued
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Tomster
Guest
“The Catholic model of the communion of saints is the biblical model. Because we love God, we love his friends. And we know that because God loves us, his friends love us, too.”
The following verses show that God bestows honor and glory on his friends, far more than you or I are able to do. So if God does this, why can’t we?
Romans 2:9 - “There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. For God shows no partiality.”
1 Corinthians 11:1 - “Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ.”
1 Corinthians 12:24-27 - “But God has so composed the body, giving the greater honor to the inferior part, that there may be no discord in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another. If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together. Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it.”
Tomster
The following verses show that God bestows honor and glory on his friends, far more than you or I are able to do. So if God does this, why can’t we?
Romans 2:9 - “There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. For God shows no partiality.”
1 Corinthians 11:1 - “Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ.”
1 Corinthians 12:24-27 - “But God has so composed the body, giving the greater honor to the inferior part, that there may be no discord in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another. If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together. Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it.”
Tomster
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Tomster
Guest
allischalmers,
Sorry, here are some other citations for your consideration.
Galatians 1:24
Phillipians 3:17-20
1 Thessalonians 1: 6-7
2Thessalonians 3:7
When we honor and venerate the Blessed Virgin Mary and the saints, we are really honoring God himself, for we are recognizing and praising the beauty of his creations.
Tomster
Sorry, here are some other citations for your consideration.
Galatians 1:24
Phillipians 3:17-20
1 Thessalonians 1: 6-7
2Thessalonians 3:7
When we honor and venerate the Blessed Virgin Mary and the saints, we are really honoring God himself, for we are recognizing and praising the beauty of his creations.
Tomster
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