Interesting but need clarification please!

[gracelovefaith]

Hello everyone!
I was just reading an article from this link- sspx.org/miscellaneous/attendance_at_the_indult_vanes.htm
and the ending caught me off guard as it may others. Why is missing mass excused if only TLM said under Indult or masses by Pope Paul the VI are near by? I thought this is where we came from… Here is the excerpt:

“That the precept of attending Sunday Mass is obligatory for all Catholics who have reached the age of reason (seven years old) but that some may be excused particularly those who are only near Masses “of Pope Paul VI” or to traditional Masses said under the “Indult.” Why? Firstly, because of the danger for the faith coming either from the priests who celebrate or from the faithful who attend them; secondly, legitimization is given to the new liturgy and finally an approval more or less implicit of the work of destruction of the One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic and Roman Tradition.”

I may be a revert, and I am trying to figure out all the subdivisions but I thought this was interesting and worth discussing.
Thanks.

 

[Tietjen]

Hello everyone!
I was just reading an article from this link- sspx.org/miscellaneous/attendance_at_the_indult_vanes.htm
and the ending caught me off guard as it may others. Why is missing mass excused if only TLM said under Indult or masses by Pope Paul the VI are near by? I thought this is where we came from… Here is the excerpt:

“That the precept of attending Sunday Mass is obligatory for all Catholics who have reached the age of reason (seven years old) but that some may be excused particularly those who are only near Masses “of Pope Paul VI” or to traditional Masses said under the “Indult.” Why? Firstly, because of the danger for the faith coming either from the priests who celebrate or from the faithful who attend them; secondly, legitimization is given to the new liturgy and finally an approval more or less implicit of the work of destruction of the One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic and Roman Tradition.”

I may be a revert, and I am trying to figure out all the subdivisions but I thought this was interesting and worth discussing.
Thanks.

I wouldn’t necessarily take my marching orders from the Society of Saint Pius X. Here is what the CCC says:

The Sunday obligation

2180 The precept of the Church specifies the law of the Lord more precisely: "On Sundays and other holy days of obligation the faithful are bound to participate in the Mass."117 "The precept of participating in the Mass is satisfied by assistance at a Mass which is celebrated anywhere in a Catholic rite either on the holy day or on the evening of the preceding day."118

2181 The Sunday Eucharist is the foundation and confirmation of all Christian practice. For this reason the faithful are obliged to participate in the Eucharist on days of obligation, unless excused for a serious reason (for example, illness, the care of infants) or dispensed by their own pastor.119 Those who deliberately fail in this obligation commit a grave sin.

2182 Participation in the communal celebration of the Sunday Eucharist is a testimony of belonging and of being faithful to Christ and to his Church. The faithful give witness by this to their communion in faith and charity. Together they testify to God’s holiness and their hope of salvation. They strengthen one another under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

2183 “If because of lack of a sacred minister or for other grave cause participation in the celebration of the Eucharist is impossible, it is specially recommended that the faithful take part in the Liturgy of the Word if it is celebrated in the parish church or in another sacred place according to the prescriptions of the diocesan bishop, or engage in prayer for an appropriate amount of time personally or in a family or, as occasion offers, in groups of families.”

 

[gracelovefaith]

Thank you!

 

[TheDoctor]

I may be a revert, and I am trying to figure out all the subdivisions but I thought this was interesting and worth discussing.
Thanks.

Hey Howdy Hi. It is not interesting or worth discussing, it is sad.

There are no “subdivisions”. There is the One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic church founded by Jesus and temporarily in the care of Pope Benedict XVI and those who are not in communion with the Church (the Orthodox, the SSPX, the SSPV, the Lutherans, the Anglicans, etc.) whom we must pray see the light and rejoin the Church.

Unfortunately, it is this line of false reasoning “…*because of the danger for the faith coming either from the priests who celebrate or from the faithful who attend them; secondly, legitimization is given to the new liturgy and finally an approval more or less implicit of the work of destruction of the One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic and Roman Tradition.” *which makes the work of bringing our separated brothers and sisters back to the faith so difficult and why we must continue to work and pray pray pray.

 

[Robert_Burns]

Hey Howdy Hi. It is not interesting or worth discussing, it is sad.

There are no “subdivisions”. There is the One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic church founded by Jesus and temporarily in the care of Pope Benedict XVI and those who are not in communion with the Church (the Orthodox, the SSPX, the SSPV, the Lutherans, the Anglicans, etc.) whom we must pray see the light and rejoin the Church.

Unfortunately, it is this line of false reasoning “…*because of the danger for the faith coming either from the priests who celebrate or from the faithful who attend them; secondly, legitimization is given to the new liturgy and finally an approval more or less implicit of the work of destruction of the One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic and Roman Tradition.” *which makes the work of bringing our separated brothers and sisters back to the faith so difficult and why we must continue to work and pray pray pray.

Along those same lines - I dont like the fact that Some Catholics believe that Saturday Evening Mass Suffices for the Sunday Obligation.

Yes I am certain that there will be those who say they have “permission” or the “Pope said it was OK” or the “Vatican” But anyone who knows the reason for the Sunday Obligation would avoid the Practise.

pax

 

[gracelovefaith]

Didn’t realize the article has a bias/propaganda vibe. Thanks for the replies though.

 

[Ockham]

The SSPX does not recognize the Novus Ordo as legitimate. Their argument is solid on that basis in the same way if you didn’t have access to a Mass you do not violate your Sunday obligation.

I prefer the FSSP’s position. They recognize the NO as legitimate but don’t want to have anything to do with it. However, I respect the SSPX and realize without them the FSSP wouldn’t be around.

 

[gracelovefaith]

Just had another thought, maybe it isn’t propaganda as the Vatican did open a formal debate in the teaching of Vatican 2 and SSPX involved. Maybe another thread because I seemd to veer off. I understand the debate is for the Mass, but my point is the significance of SSPX involvement and the truth.

 

[Bbigam]

Along those same lines - I dont like the fact that Some Catholics believe that Saturday Evening Mass Suffices for the Sunday Obligation.

Yes I am certain that there will be those who say they have “permission” or the “Pope said it was OK” or the “Vatican” But anyone who knows the reason for the Sunday Obligation would avoid the Practise.

pax

In the Catechism quote above, it makes it clear that the Saturday evening Mass counts for Sunday obligation. If we accept what the Church teaches, we should accept all that the Church teaches.

That said, I always go to Sunday morning Mass. If for some reason I go on Saturday night, like the Easter Vigil or Pentecost Vigil, I still also go Sunday morning as well unless I can’t, which hardly ever happens.

 

[Robert_Burns]

In the Catechism quote above, it makes it clear that the Saturday evening Mass counts for Sunday obligation. If we accept what the Church teaches, we should accept all that the Church teaches.

That said, I always go to Sunday morning Mass. If for some reason I go on Saturday night, like the Easter Vigil or Pentecost Vigil, I still also go Sunday morning as well unless I can’t, which hardly ever happens.

As you no boubt know in the Easter Vigil - Holy Mass doesnt begin until Midnight and since Mass then takes place AFTER Midnight its no longer on Saturday.

In addition many parishes over the last few years have started having Mass BEFORE midnight on Saturday which I would avoid as well.

My point ist what is allowed , it is , rather , what a Catholic who loves the Church and wants to see it grow should do . IMO - Catholics should start living and acting like Catholics again not only fully supporting by action the Churches stance of Artificial Birth control but in areas like modesty in dress / speech / example , and externals like - Kneeling for Communion - Dressing properly in their Sunday Best - Women covering their heads - Attending the Tridentine Latin Mass on Sundays and or as many other days of the week one is able but always on Sundays. Perhaps when Catholics stop looking to do only the minimum we will better exmaple leading to more Vocations to the Priesthood and Holy Orders and more graces from Almighty GOD. I really bnelieve that we have a shortage in Religious vocations that is directly correlated to the fact that the catholic youth are given a bad example today that most Catholics dont take Our Cherished religion as seriously as we should , and thus arent drawn to investigate it as a vocation.

 

[smithm29]

Along those same lines - I dont like the fact that Some Catholics believe that Saturday Evening Mass Suffices for the Sunday Obligation.

Yes I am certain that there will be those who say they have “permission” or the “Pope said it was OK” or the “Vatican” But anyone who knows the reason for the Sunday Obligation would avoid the Practise.

pax

As you no boubt know in the Easter Vigil - Holy Mass doesnt begin until Midnight and since Mass then takes place AFTER Midnight its no longer on Saturday.

In addition many parishes over the last few years have started having Mass BEFORE midnight on Saturday which I would avoid as well.

My point ist what is allowed , it is , rather , what a Catholic who loves the Church and wants to see it grow should do . IMO - Catholics should start living and acting like Catholics again not only fully supporting by action the Churches stance of Artificial Birth control but in areas like modesty in dress / speech / example , and externals like - Kneeling for Communion - Dressing properly in their Sunday Best - Women covering their heads - Attending the Tridentine Latin Mass on Sundays and or as many other days of the week one is able but always on Sundays. Perhaps when Catholics stop looking to do only the minimum we will better exmaple leading to more Vocations to the Priesthood and Holy Orders and more graces from Almighty GOD. I really bnelieve that we have a shortage in Religious vocations that is directly correlated to the fact that the catholic youth are given a bad example today that most Catholics dont take Our Cherished religion as seriously as we should , and thus arent drawn to investigate it as a vocation.

Are you serious? “Rome is wrong and I am right and if you go by what Rome says you are not a serious Catholic.”

 

[Robert_Burns]

Are you serious? “Rome is wrong and I am right and if you go by what Rome says you are not a serious Catholic.”

Thats not what I said. Thats what you just said. Obviously that isnt what I said.

 

[Onegin]

The SSPX does not recognize the Novus Ordo as legitimate. Their argument is solid on that basis in the same way if you didn’t have access to a Mass you do not violate your Sunday obligation.

I prefer the FSSP’s position. They recognize the NO as legitimate but don’t want to have anything to do with it. However, I respect the SSPX and realize without them the FSSP wouldn’t be around.

It depends on what you mean by “legitimate”, though. The SSPX does see the Novus Ordo as a valid Mass that validly confects the Holy Eucharist (presupposing, as one does with all Masses, that the proper form, matter and intent are present) but they believe that it has elements in it that are protestantising and therefore potentially dangerous to one’s faith.

As for the FSSP, I can’t say that they “don’t want to have anything to do with it” as many FSSP Priests do say the Novus Ordo Mass as well as the TLM. So, given that they say it, I would have to guess that the FSSP disagree with some of the changes but do not feel that they are actually protestantising or dangerous to one’s faith.

So, the biggest difference (in my opinion at least) between the FSSP and the SSPX mentality is whether attending and participating in the New Mass may weaken one’s faith or not. Both disagree with it, but one sees it as having more potential to harm.

 

[smithm29]

Yes I am certain that there will be those who say they have “permission” or the “Pope said it was OK” or the “Vatican” But anyone who knows the reason for the Sunday Obligation would avoid the Practise.

My point ist what is allowed , it is , rather , what a Catholic who loves the Church and wants to see it grow should do .

The above is you saying that your belief in what Catholics must do is more important than he hierarchy’s belief in what Catholics should do.

 

[Bbigam]

As you no boubt know in the Easter Vigil - Holy Mass doesnt begin until Midnight and since Mass then takes place AFTER Midnight its no longer on Saturday. In addition many parishes over the last few years have started having Mass BEFORE midnight on Saturday which I would avoid as well.

Not quite true. It is required to be after sunset on Holy Saturday night and before sunrise on Easter Sunday morning. Nothing about it being after midnight. Around here the Vigil usually starts at 9 pm, well after dark, but done before midnight - this is approved by the bishop and in line with the rubrics.

My point ist what is allowed , it is , rather , what a Catholic who loves the Church and wants to see it grow should do . IMO - Catholics should start living and acting like Catholics again not only fully supporting by action the Churches stance of Artificial Birth control but in areas like modesty in dress / speech / example , and externals like - Kneeling for Communion - Dressing properly in their Sunday Best - Women covering their heads - Attending the Tridentine Latin Mass on Sundays and or as many other days of the week one is able but always on Sundays. Perhaps when Catholics stop looking to do only the minimum we will better exmaple leading to more Vocations to the Priesthood and Holy Orders and more graces from Almighty GOD. I really bnelieve that we have a shortage in Religious vocations that is directly correlated to the fact that the catholic youth are given a bad example today that most Catholics dont take Our Cherished religion as seriously as we should , and thus arent drawn to investigate it as a vocation.

Certainly we should do much more than the minimum! But the point of this thread is the Sunday Obligation, which can be fulfilled on Saturday night, and certainly in the Ordinary Form of the Mass. I would always encourage Catholics to also go on any other day that they can, to follow the moral law of the Church, to dress nicely for Mass at least on Sundays and Holy Days, etc.

 

[PJM]

=gracelovefaith;6890546]Hello everyone!
I was just reading an article from this link- sspx.org/miscellaneous/attendance_at_the_indult_vanes.htm
and the ending caught me off guard as it may others. Why is missing mass excused if only TLM said under Indult or masses by Pope Paul the VI are near by? I thought this is where we came from… Here is the excerpt:

“That the precept of attending Sunday Mass is obligatory for all Catholics who have reached the age of reason (seven years old) but that some may be excused particularly those who are only near Masses “of Pope Paul VI” or to traditional Masses said under the “Indult.” Why? Firstly, because of the danger for the faith coming either from the priests who celebrate or from the faithful who attend them; secondly, legitimization is given to the new liturgy and finally an approval more or less implicit of the work of destruction of the One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic and Roman Tradition.”

I may be a revert, and I am trying to figure out all the subdivisions but I thought this was interesting and worth discussing.
Thanks.

FALSE INFORMATION AND NOT VALID.

The Commandments come into authority here:

KEEP HOLY THE SABBATH DAY is a mandate of God excepted ONLY with the greatest and gravest reasons.