Interesting Questions Asked by a Friend

[Angela77]

Hello!

So, I was talking to a friend of mine who doesn’t follow any particular religion and who doesn’t always believe in God. We were having a rather deep discussion about religion and the importance of following a set religion instead of following some abstract spirituality. He posed several questions that I had never really thought about. I tried my best to give the right answers from a Catholic viewpoint, but I wanted to make sure, which is why I’m asking you CAF members. I’ll write the questions followed by my answers. Tell me if I’m right, wrong, or if you have anything to add/fix:

1. Why do you need an institution (the Church) to help your relationship with God? Since it’s God, can’t He guide you to find Him on your own through prayer?

My answer: Jesus established the Church, and since He’s the Son of God, He must know what He’s talking about. Also, Jesus said if we want to be saved we have to eat His Flesh, which you can only get through the Church. As for the second part of that question, God could certainly guide you if He wanted, but it’d probably be really hard for you to hear. And if you did hear his voice, He’d probably tell you to go to the Church.

1. How do we know the nature of God? How does the Church know better than any individual could?

My answer: We know His nature through the revelation of Jesus Christ, his Son. The Church knows better than individuals because She has been studying the revelation of Jesus for 2000 years.

1. Why can’t we just be good people and not follow any particular religion?

My answer: When you don’t follow a religion, morality becomes an abstraction. With time and with generations, you lose sight of what’s right and wrong. Jesus was the ultimate good, and the Church proclaims His teachings.

Thank you in advance for any responses!

 

[Aggies08]

Regarding this:

1. Why do you need an institution (the Church) to help your relationship with God? Since it’s God, can’t He guide you to find Him on your own through prayer?

I would also discuss discernment. How does the penitent know if they are hearing God and not the devil? Follow that line of thought to it’s end, the need for an authority.

 

[curlycool89]

This is an interesting discussion to have. On the Apologetics forum, not the Traditional Catholicism forum.

 

[Angela77]

So true! Good one; I hadn’t thought of that!

Regarding this:

I would also discuss discernment. How does the penitent know if they are hearing God and not the devil? Follow that line of thought to it’s end, the need for an authority.

 

[Angela77]

Oh…how does one move it?

This is an interesting discussion to have. On the Apologetics forum, not the Traditional Catholicism forum.

 

[sw85]

1. Why do you need an institution (the Church) to help your relationship with God? Since it’s God, can’t He guide you to find Him on your own through prayer?

My answer: Jesus established the Church, and since He’s the Son of God, He must know what He’s talking about. Also, Jesus said if we want to be saved we have to eat His Flesh, which you can only get through the Church. As for the second part of that question, God could certainly guide you if He wanted, but it’d probably be really hard for you to hear. And if you did hear his voice, He’d probably tell you to go to the Church.

That’s basically right – God didn’t leave us a “personal relationship,” He left us a Church to mediate his relationship with man. What God can do is not relevant. What He did do, is.

1. How do we know the nature of God? How does the Church know better than any individual could?

My answer: We know His nature through the revelation of Jesus Christ, his Son. The Church knows better than individuals because She has been studying the revelation of Jesus for 2000 years.

Natural theology. See the works of Thomas Aquinas – God as ipsum esse subsistens. The same arguments that tell us God exists also tell us what we mean when we talk about “God.”

1. Why can’t we just be good people and not follow any particular religion?

My answer: When you don’t follow a religion, morality becomes an abstraction. With time and with generations, you lose sight of what’s right and wrong. Jesus was the ultimate good, and the Church proclaims His teachings.

One of the key insights of the Catholic moral theological is that you don’t need religion to be a “good person.” The natural law is “inscribed on the hearts of men” after all. But there are two caveats here. First, organized religion reveals to us duties that cannot be known by natural law alone, i.e., those which arise from divine positive law. Second, it’s not enough just to be a “good person.”

To be a “good person” means to be an excellent specimen of human nature, i.e., to possess and exercise the natural/cardinal virtues in their fullness. The cardinal virtues aren’t enough to get you to Heaven because, by nature, man does not possess Heaven. We aren’t made for it. But we can be elevated to it, and that’s what the theological virtues are for. We need revelation to understand them and to acquire them.

 

[MidnightSun12]

1. Why do you need an institution (the Church) to help your relationship with God? Since it’s God, can’t He guide you to find Him on your own through prayer?

God can certainly guide us closer to Him through prayer, but that guidance would invariably bring us to the church that He established since entering into communion with our Lord is the closest we can possibly be to His presence on this earth.

1. How do we know the nature of God? How does the Church know better than any individual could?

I don’t think anybody truly understands the nature of God. Even Saint Augustine could not comprehend the great mystery of the Holy Trinity. That said, God has told us how He wants us to conduct ourselves (as human beings) and the Catholic Church has been given the moral authority by Christ to interpret His words and provide infallible teachings that can help a soul reach heaven throughout the ages.

1. Why can’t we just be good people and not follow any particular religion?

Because satan temptations are very powerful and our human nature is weak. Deep in our nature exists an underlying attraction to sin. Without the spiritual armor provided to us by the sacraments, the Mass, and the Holy Rosary, our path to salvation would vastly more cumbersome.

I hope this was able to help, Angela.

 

[Nimzovik]

The 5th Joyful Mystery.

Nuff said.

 

[GratefulFred]

Angela77, I think you gave pretty good answers and the answers above are good too. A whole library of books have been written on this questions and it is hard to provide a short sound bite. You did well.

Q-3 first. We know we are imperfect. We lack the ability to “just be good.” We need to be trained, and encouraged, and corrected. If we could just be good, we would need NO laws whatsoever. Laws set by governments are a low level. Moral law is a higher standard. God’s Law for Mankind is the highest moral standard.

Q-2: God’s ways are so very far above man’s ways, that it is impossible to fully know God’s Nature. God has revealed to us what He has choosen to reveal. We know enough, if we but choose to be trained, of God’s Nature to be able to TRUST Him. I would suspect your friend has not taken any serious course of study. I would challenge him: do not take my word. Here read this and then let’s discuss.

Q-1: While we can know that there is a God through reason, God revealed Himself more fully through the Bible. The coming of His Son was foretold. Jesus Christ is the ONLY person ever foretold. Read carefully the Gospels and New Testament and it should be clear that Christ is indeed the Living Son of God. Then, for a short list,read:

Matthew 16: 13-19 His Church
Luke 22: 14-20 His Body and Blood in Holy Eucharist
John 20: 20-23 How sins are forgiven.

There are many passages in the New Testament confirming that Christ intended to establish His Church, explained things to His Apostoles in private, commanded them to teach all nations, and sent the Holy Spirit to guide the Church as it guides us.

Once I took the time to read what Jesus was all about, I realized that my place IS in the Church HE established.

I do not have an ego so large that I think God has to speak to me personally when He already has done so through Christ and His Church. Well, He could; He is God. But He chose to work through His Son Jesus Christ and His Church.

Finally God respects our Free Will. He will not enter into our hearts unless we invite Him. Actions have consequences.

 

[PJM]

=Angela77;9523129]Hello!

1. Why do you need an institution (the Church) to help your relationship with God? Since it’s God, can’t He guide you to find Him on your own through prayer?

That has NEVER beens Godas way. Always and everywhere He has chosen Men to LEAD tohers to Him and to Teach and speakon His behalf:

Abraham, Moses, Noah, David, the Judges, Prophets and Kings.

God makes it simple:
Either God is in CHARGE\or
We are in Charge and the responsibility can’t be split. READ Isa. 43: vrs. 7 and 21

You gave a Good but likely TOO profound answer

1. How do we know the nature of God? How does the Church know better than any individual could?

As indicated above the “church” [singular with more than 100 evidences in the NT alone] IS GOD WAY and God has ALWAYS determined HOW salvation shall be granted and merited. As our CREATOR He has and maintains certain rights. How salvation becomes possible is absolutely ONE of them.

My answer: We know His nature through the revelation of Jesus Christ, his Son. The Church knows better than individuals because She has been studying the revelation of Jesus for 2000 years.

God not only chooses certain men as His Teachers; He enlightens, guides, protects and LEADS them in His truths. READ: Mt. 16:15-19; Mt. 28:16-20; Jn.14:16-17 and John 17:15-19 and John 20:19-23

1. Why can’t we just be good people and not follow any particular religion?

My answer: When you don’t follow a religion, morality becomes an abstraction. With time and with generations, you lose sight of what’s right and wrong. Jesus was the ultimate good, and the Church proclaims His teachings.

It is unrealistice even foolosh to think that ANYONE will attain Heaven without suffering. Because of Original Sin we too MUST suffer. Christ personally taught [and it is reprated five times in the NT] that we [EVERYONE; {protestants included}; MUSt in an absolute sense “take up our crosses and follow Christ”… this means that ALL MUST endure suffering to merit salvation. Mt. 17:19 tells us that those who do not do so willingly CANNOT; willnot be Christ deciples and saved.

The Commandments are just that: COMMANDS of God; not mere suggestions. Further EACH of them is a Catagory HEADING; NOT the complete list of possible sins. READ Matt. Chapter Five for some examples.

The bottom line is this:

Either:
God IS IN CHARGE

or

We are in charge and the responsibility can’t be splt.

God retains the RIGHT as our Creator [Genesis 1:26-27] to set the rules. He permits us to Obey or disobey; to love or hate Him [it’s one or the other] so that we can LIKE CHRIST; PROVE our love for God.

Heaven and hell ARE REAL and we; NOT GOD choose where we will spend eternity.

God Bless you,
pat/PJM