Interesting Version of Catholicism

[La_Devota]

Here’s something interesting I heard once.

I have studied Spanish for the last 10 years and part of my education was acquired studying abroad, and in my travels (through Mexico, Spain, Costa Rica and Argentina) I met a lot of people. Not surprisingly, most of them were Roman Catholic.

In Mexico, more than anywhere else, I had the opportunity to learn about how the Catholic faith has influenced Mexican tradition and vice versa. Everything from the way Mexicans make the sign of the cross to the way they perform baptisms, I found, had a distinctive characteristic that made it unique to their culture. I was fascinated and found it charming to see people on the bus and on the street making the sign of the cross every time they passed a Catholic church. They appeared to have so much respect and reverance for the Church. Therefore, I was confused when I learned about the Latin philosophy on fidelity.

In my classroom and textbook studies, I learned that within the Latin and Spanish cultures, the expectations of women are quite different from those of men. Most shocking to me was the acceptance for and expectation of a man’s infidelity to his spouse. How is it that a woman is expected to remain loyal and faithful to her husband but it is perfectly acceptable (at least to society) for the husband to partake in the delights of various women other than his wife? As far as I could tell, the Catholic faith I grew up with would never encourage, condone or accept this kind of behavior. How could these men possibly justify their actions - especially considering how devote they seemed. I was simply curious, so…

I was riding in a cab once with a driver who adorned his rear-view mirror with at least three rosaries, a picture of the Virgin of Guadalupe and a picture of the Sacred Heart of Jesus, and I asked him, “Why is infidelity among men here so common? Isn’t it against “your” religion?” His response was most interesting.
He said, and I paraphrase, sexual desire is natural - you can’t stop it or control it and “God understands.” (That is a direct quote.) He continued:
If you see someone you are attracted to and you want to have relations with her, you have to do it. It’s okay. It’s natural. Your wife is one thing, your desires are another. You have to live your life to the fullest and take advantage of every opportunity and indulge all of your desires - especially the sexual ones - because when we die, it’ll be too late.

I was dumbfounded, to tell the truth. This kind of infidelity was, as far as I could tell, a cultural norm and the mystery and philosophy of the “Latin Lover” was finally revealed - and then implemented when he (a married man) invited me to “keep riding around with him.” By then I was simply appalled.

What’s my point? It’s interesting to me how the same religion - based on the same Bible, the same teachings of Christ and led by the same Pope, can have so many different interpretations based on, in this case I deduce, culture.

Is there anyone who would like to comment on my story? Perhaps even another Catholic Latino? As a student of the Spanish language and Latin culture - as well as a seriously religious and committed Catholic, I am terribly interested in this issue.

 

[sanpablo]

That comes very surprising to me. Sorry, but I don’t know why they do that stuff. Anyone know?

 

[Fidelis]

As a Latin man who has been happily and faithfully married to my wife for almost twenty years, I can only speak for myself. And your cabbie can only speak for himself. Ricardo Montalban once did an interview on EWTN and spoke very touchingly how in all the years he had been in Hollywood with the image of a “Latin Lover,” he was always in love with and faithful to his wife.

Don’t be so quick to draw generalizations based on anecdotal and limited evidence, especially when it disparges a whole people or culture. I believe this is called stereotyping.

 

[RMP]

I get to go to Mexico farely often. I am not Spanish myself. But the beliefs the cabbie professed are common in some places for what ever the reason. I heard once that if the priests started holding people accountable, there would be a mass exidus of the faith down there. But I hear that is happening anyways in some places. Protestant are doing alot of witnessing in Mexico nowadays. I believe it is just another lapse of strong moral teaching. It is weird how someone holds unbendingly true to one doctrine and then freely rejects another. From my own experience, the spanish catholic friends I have would say they are 100% catholic, but their fathers held the beliefs of your cabbie. Sat spent with a mistress, sun spent with the wife. I have seen it myself a few times. Man with young girl sat night, then a women more his type on sun. This occurs at resorts and stuff.

My point is, it does go on, But like the previous post, i think most people do not do it, even though they talk about it alot.

 

[happybrew]

I would suspect that Catholics in Mexico are like Catholics here. There are a lot who don’t really practice it. The difference is, it has permeated the culture there, just as Protestantism has permeated the culture here. I have seen infidelity in both Latinos and Anglos. I would hardly call a cab driver who is unfaithful to his wife a theological authority who could speak for Catholic belief in Mexico, just as I wouldn’t consider a Protestant cab driver here to be a theological spokesman for Protestantism.

Doug

 

[justinmatter]

i guess such “versions” of catholicism come from an incomplete knowledge of one’s own faith.
latin america was evangelised by the spanish and portuguese catholics so long ago that catholicism has become a culture and lifestyle there. that in itself may be good but unfortunately, the fervour of the faith has been lost. the clergy is afraid to teach the faith and people are too lazy to listen what little is being taught. thus, one ends up in sinful lifestyles like having adulterous affairs and then, rationalizing them based on a petty and incomplete understanding of what god asks of us
i remember a friend of mine saying in church long ago that one must recieve communion so that sins may be forgiven- thus i went with moratl sin on my soul to recieve communion.
i remember a weekly letter of karl keating suggesting that the best way to invigorate the church would be for the clergy to teach the faith uncompromisingly and without appearing ashamed of it - i agree. sure, people may leave the church but , it will renew the faith of the church and the faithful catholics wil then be a force to be reckoned
while on latin america, i remember being horrified at the end of the last soccer world cup which brazil won. there was a snap in my newspaper of the brazilian team on their knees in the centre of the field, praising god and attributing the victory to a renewed faith-wave in brazil- under the protestant churches. the article went on to say that a traditionally catholic country was waking up to the christian faith in a vibrant fasion. frankly, it sounded bad. i don’t think this would have happened if people were living their faith already and not sleeping on it.

 

[Minerva]

very good points. when Catholicism becomes so embedded in a culture, any culture, you’re going to find alot of people going through the motions (like crossing themselves on the bus) but not living the Gospel. They can get away with it because one is a “catholic” by birthright and will always be one no matter what they do. YOu see it in the US too with “cultural catholics.” There are alot of them here in the northeast, people who think that because they are Irish or Italian they are always Catholic through and through, no matter if they hardly ever attend church and always vote pro-abortion.

It’s great when the Church permeates an entire culture, but we have to be careful of religion becoming just another part of daily life. that’s when it becomes abused, when it isn’t seen as something special and something that should stand in opposition to the world. In places where Catholicism isn’t as dominant, the Catholics tend to be more faithful and serious about their obligation to the Gospel.

 

[_pro-life_teen]

I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that since most Mexicans are Catholic by birth, catechism is not stressed enough, resulting in poorly catechized Catholics who are easy targets for the growing Protestant proselytizers and who believe religion can be custom-tailored.

Obviously, this is NOT the case for everyone or even most (imo).

Almost every house I see in Mexico, esp in Guadalajara, where my fam. lives, has a card attached to the front door with a picture of La Virgen de Guadalupe and the Sagrado Corazon that reads:

!ESTE HOGAR ES CATHOLICO! (this home is Catholic)

!NO ACEPTEMOS PROPAGANDA DE OTRAS SECTAS! (we don’t accept propaganda from other sects)

!VIVA LA VIRGEN DE GUADALUPE!

!VIVA CRISTO REY!

btw: Isn’t it awesome that the International Eucharistic Conference is in Guadalajara?!

 

[puzzleannie]

I live a mile and a half north of the border in an area that is 90% Mexican heritage from recent immigrants to families who have lived here since before the war (the Alamo one). It was once also 90% Catholic, now down to maybe 60% due to agressive proselytizing by various non-Catholic sects, and by the general deterioration of Catholic identity in this country. It is also 90% democratic with the conflict between belief and public values that implies. Virtually everyone I have known for 8 years is of Mexican extraction (or a Mexican national) and I speak fairly adequate Tex-Mex.

None of this makes me an expert on Mexican culture and values. Either does travel or even residence in Mexico or any other Latin American country.

It is wrong to make generalizations about an ethnic group, race, or culture such as those posted in this thread. While observations about specific comments or actions of individuals may be interesting, they cannot be extrapolated to characterizations of an entire group. This is bias and prejudice. It also slanders the hundreds of thousands of Hispanics who lead chaste lives and is uncalled for, especially in a discussion forum that purports to be Christian.

I can tell you that I have never seen such faith in my nearly 60 years as a Catholic. I came down here nearly in despair at the sad state of the Church in my part of the country, and found renewal and inspiration and witness and example. I firmly believe that the trend most forecasters see of a US Catholic church that is 50% Hispanic within the next 20 years is accurate, and that it will mean a renewal of faith, obedience, devotion and practice. I also believe based on my experience in catechetics over the last 8 years, that it will also present a challenge for teaching and evangelizing Catholics in the basics of their faith.

 

[RosaLydia]

I think that we can all agree that being a cafeteria or cultural Catholic is sadly an international phenomenon

 

[faithhopelove]

I can’t speak to whether infidelity is more common among Catholics in Mexico and S AMer, but I did have an interesting conversation with a protestant friend whose faith I respect even though she is Methodist. SHe went on a mission trip down to S America to evangelize in a country which is predominently Catholic. I was quite upset with her when she first came back, esp since I knew that she doesn’t buy into the myths regarding Catholicism like some Protestants. But what she told me shocked me. She told me that if she had seen the people practicing the Catholicism she sees me and other American Catholics practicing, she would have never evangelized with the intent of “converting” them because she respects Catholicism. But she said that what she saw didn’t resemble the Catholicism in the US at all. That Catholicism had become intertwined with local cults and myths and had become extremely distorted. She said most of the people didn’t even know who Jesus was, and that the stories they told about Mary were often weaved in with myths of area pagan religions. She said that one Catholic church she went to had the coffin of Jesus in the front of the church instead of the crucifix or any sign of the risen Christ.

Obviously, I have not experienced any of this myself, and I certainly can’t characterize a whole culture based on this one experience of a friend (even if I do respect her). But it did make me sit up and take notice that maybe part of our evangelization efforts should be aimed at properly educating those that are already Catholic, but maybe in name only, and not to be complacent about areas of South America and Mexico thinking that those areas are “already Catholic”

 

[Toni]

In working for wonderful and very orthodox priests from Mexico I was also amazed when my husband came home from a business trip from Chihuahua and he told me that he was amazed at how the women act and dress. He said it was a lot like Sodom and Gommorah. I could not believe it. Also I was amazed at the clothing that I have seen on many Latin American Women here in the states. But I must agree with pro life teen on this. Somewhere there is a lack of teaching when it comes to lust, adultery, and the sins of the flesh.
I have never seen any behavior like this in any of our priests from Mexico. My husband said his stock in those priests has went way up since being in Mexico.
*pro-life_teen*:

I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that since most Mexicans are Catholic by birth, catechism is not stressed enough, resulting in poorly catechized Catholics who are easy targets for the growing Protestant proselytizers and who believe religion can be custom-tailored.