Invalid Marriage

[sfleet]

What if you know that you marriage is invalid. (I know most people will respond with “you can’t know that”). But really if you look at what the church teaches and evaluate if your relationship with your spouse had the right ingredients upon saying your wedding vows, one can say with good certainty that their marriage was valid or invalid.

I say all of this because my spouse and I are miserable with one another and I can’t help but think (I know a very terrible and negative thought) that my marriage is invalid and that God would not want me in an invalid marriage. Even as painful and terrible as divorce is and would be.

How do I get rid of these thoughts of thinking my marriage is invalid, I’ve talked to my pastor, I’m praying daily, I don’t know what to do.

 

[Xantippe]

What if you know that you marriage is invalid. (I know most people will respond with “you can’t know that”). But really if you look at what the church teaches and evaluate if your relationship with your spouse had the right ingredients upon saying your wedding vows, one can say with good certainty that their marriage was valid or invalid.

I say all of this because my spouse and I are miserable with one another and I can’t help but think (I know a very terrible and negative thought) that my marriage is invalid and that God would not want me in an invalid marriage. Even as painful and terrible as divorce is and would be.

How do I get rid of these thoughts of thinking my marriage is invalid, I’ve talked to my pastor, I’m praying daily, I don’t know what to do.

What did your pastor say? If your marriage is invalid, but you are eligible to marry each other, it is possible to convalidate your marriage.

Could you be having obtrusive depressive or OCD-type thoughts? Talk to your doctor, too, and see what he or she thinks.

 

[Catholic1954]

What if you know that you marriage is invalid. (I know most people will respond with “you can’t know that”). But really if you look at what the church teaches and evaluate if your relationship with your spouse had the right ingredients upon saying your wedding vows, one can say with good certainty that their marriage was valid or invalid.

I say all of this because my spouse and I are miserable with one another and I can’t help but think (I know a very terrible and negative thought) that my marriage is invalid and that God would not want me in an invalid marriage. Even as painful and terrible as divorce is and would be.

How do I get rid of these thoughts of thinking my marriage is invalid, I’ve talked to my pastor, I’m praying daily, I don’t know what to do.

If you married with conditions that could later be used to grant an annulment, your marriage is still valid until the Marriage Tribunal says it is not. God wants you to honor your wedding vows and do everything within your power to remain faithful to your husband. If things are getting tough right now, seek professional marriage counseling; if he won’t go with you, go by yourself. Divorce and annulment are the very last resort, after every thing else fails and even if you think you have an obvious case for annulment it is still up to the Tribunal and they have the last word.

 

[Augustine]

Regardless, you have at least a natural marriage, which is also a divine institution. You may not say for sure whether you have a valid sacramental marriage, but you cannot assume that you don’t without the Church looking into it. Bar this step, God does want you in your current marriage and, even if devoid of sacramental grace, pray that God bestows His grace on it, for He is not limited by His sacraments in His favors.

Christus resurrexit!

 

[tee_eff_em]

Regardless, you have at least a natural marriage, which is also a divine institution.

No. :nope:

You either have a valid marriage or you do not. If both parties have been baptized you cannot have some hybrid invalid-sacramental-marriage-but-valid-natural-marriage.

If both parties are baptized, you can either have a valid (and sacramental) marriage, or your marriage is invalid.

If at least one party is not baptized, you can either have a valid (and natural) marriage, or your marriage is invalid.

There is no other way.

tee
Who Is Not A Canon Lawyer

 

[Augustine]

If both parties are baptized, you can either have a valid (and sacramental) marriage, or your marriage is invalid.

You’re right, of course.

Christus resurrexit!

 

[panorama]

If you married with conditions that could later be used to grant an annulment, your marriage is still valid until the Marriage Tribunal says it is not. God wants you to honor your wedding vows and do everything within your power to remain faithful to your husband. If things are getting tough right now, seek professional marriage counseling; if he won’t go with you, go by yourself. Divorce and annulment are the very last resort, after every thing else fails and even if you think you have an obvious case for annulment it is still up to the Tribunal and they have the last word.

1. Can a parish priest or even a diocesan bishop,
   based on the undeniable facts of certain marital conditions that logically leads to the solid conclusion that the marriage is unquestionably invalid,
   (OUTSIDE the Marriage Tribunal) DECLARE that one’s marriage is, in fact, invalid?
2. Can a parish priest or even a diocesan bishop,
   (OUTSIDE the Marriage Tribunal) after DECLARING that one’s marriage isinvalid,
   based on the undeniable facts of certain marital conditions that logically leads to the solid conclusion that the marriage is unquestionably invalid,
   PROCLAIM that the divorcée/divorcé is free to REMARRY?

I have those 2 questions because I met someone at my parish who is divorced and claimed that she is free to remarry because the parish priest said so, without going to Marriage Tribunal, even though she was married in the catholic church.

 

[Anglewannabe]

What if you know that you marriage is invalid. (I know most people will respond with “you can’t know that”). But really if you look at what the church teaches and evaluate if your relationship with your spouse had the right ingredients upon saying your wedding vows, one can say with good certainty that their marriage was valid or invalid.

I say all of this because my spouse and I are miserable with one another and I can’t help but think (I know a very terrible and negative thought) that my marriage is invalid and that God would not want me in an invalid marriage. Even as painful and terrible as divorce is and would be.

How do I get rid of these thoughts of thinking my marriage is invalid, I’ve talked to my pastor, I’m praying daily, I don’t know what to do.

ummm I am reading between the lines and I think you are asking quite a different question. It appears you want to leave your spouse and if you can convince yourself your marriage is invalid you will leave but fear finding out your marriage is valid and will have to stay.

I strongly encourage you to find some spiritual guidance (which I know is hard to find) since this seems too deep for an internet discussion

 

[nodito]

1. Can a parish priest or even a diocesan bishop,
   based on the undeniable facts of certain marital conditions that logically leads to the solid conclusion that the marriage is unquestionably invalid,
   (OUTSIDE the Marriage Tribunal) DECLARE that one’s marriage is, in fact, invalid?
2. Can a parish priest or even a diocesan bishop,
   (OUTSIDE the Marriage Tribunal) after DECLARING that one’s marriage isinvalid,
   based on the undeniable facts of certain marital conditions that logically leads to the solid conclusion that the marriage is unquestionably invalid,
   PROCLAIM that the divorcée/divorcé is free to REMARRY?

I have those 2 questions because I met someone at my parish who is divorced and claimed that she is free to remarry because the parish priest said so, without going to Marriage Tribunal, even though she was married in the catholic church.

No. Whether or not a marriage is valid is up to the determination of competent ecclesiastical authorities, namely, the marriage tribunal. A parish priest may have good reason to suspect that someone’s marriage was not valid, but he is not able to declare it so and advise a divorced individual that she or he can remarry.

 

[ChibiViolet]

1. Can a parish priest or even a diocesan bishop,
   based on the undeniable facts of certain marital conditions that logically leads to the solid conclusion that the marriage is unquestionably invalid,
   (OUTSIDE the Marriage Tribunal) DECLARE that one’s marriage is, in fact, invalid?
2. Can a parish priest or even a diocesan bishop,
   (OUTSIDE the Marriage Tribunal) after DECLARING that one’s marriage isinvalid,
   based on the undeniable facts of certain marital conditions that logically leads to the solid conclusion that the marriage is unquestionably invalid,
   PROCLAIM that the divorcée/divorcé is free to REMARRY?

I have those 2 questions because I met someone at my parish who is divorced and claimed that she is free to remarry because the parish priest said so, without going to Marriage Tribunal, even though she was married in the catholic church.

Well, she does need to go to a Marriage Tribunal to get an annulment if she wants to marry in the Church again.

 

[Gorgias]

I met someone at my parish who is divorced and claimed that she is free to remarry because the parish priest said so, without going to Marriage Tribunal, even though she was married in the catholic church.

She misunderstood what the priest told her; perhaps he simply informed her that her marriage appears to be invalid, such that at some point in the future (after obtaining a decree of nullity, of course), she should be able to marry in the Church.

The first thing the person preparing a couple for marriage asks for are the extracts of their sacramental records from the parishes where they were baptized.

The priest (or deacon) who would be preparing your friend for marriage will then see that her status is ‘married in the Church’, and he’ll advise her that she needs to go through the nullity process before she’d be able to marry in the Church. “My pastor said it was ok” won’t cut it.

 

[sfleet]

I appreciate all the replies and I wish it were as simple as saying, “I have a valid marriage I should be happy”. But it is not, there are serious doubts in my head and all the arguing and fighting aren’t helping those thoughts.

For clarification we were both baptized (non-Catholics) when we married. Neither one of us attended church regularly until several years into our marriage. As sad as it may sound God was not discussed at all when we were dating or in marriage prep. We did a silly Myers Briggs personality test with a Methodist minister whom we had met once before our wedding day. We chose that church cause it was cheap and pretty. I was baptized Anglican as my parents would tell me that “we are like Catholics, but we believe in divorce because that is what King Henry did and we don’t put emphasis on Mary”. I’m paraphrasing but that was pretty much how I understood it growing up.

At any rate I’m not saying I want a divorce, if I did I would simply seek one. What I do want is peace in my mind and my heart.

 

[Corki]

1. Can a parish priest or even a diocesan bishop,
   based on the undeniable facts of certain marital conditions that logically leads to the solid conclusion that the marriage is unquestionably invalid,
   (OUTSIDE the Marriage Tribunal) DECLARE that one’s marriage is, in fact, invalid?
2. Can a parish priest or even a diocesan bishop,
   (OUTSIDE the Marriage Tribunal) after DECLARING that one’s marriage isinvalid,
   based on the undeniable facts of certain marital conditions that logically leads to the solid conclusion that the marriage is unquestionably invalid,
   PROCLAIM that the divorcée/divorcé is free to REMARRY?

I have those 2 questions because I met someone at my parish who is divorced and claimed that she is free to remarry because the parish priest said so, without going to Marriage Tribunal, even though she was married in the catholic church.

No, a priest cannot make an official declaration about the validity of the marriage.

Besides what others have said, there are some instances where there is little or no doubt that the marriage is invalid. For example, if the couple had married only civilly (and one was Catholic at the time) or if the marriage was under duress (ie shotgun marriage). But there is still a process that must be completed before the person can remarry and that process is done by the tribunal. In the former case, it’s a much shorter and quicker process and does not involve a full investigation but the final word still comes from the tribunal. It’s very possible that a priest may have told this woman that her marriage was “surely invalid” based on the facts but there is still a process that will need to be completed if she wants to remarry.

The law to submit a marriage to the tribunal for examination of validity is a binding law. If anyone, even a Bishop, were to make an official declaration regarding the validity of a marriage, that declaration would itself be invalid.

 

[Viki63]

Dear Sfleet,
A marriage is valid unless someone contests it.
Your job is to try to do the will of God, and if you are in a marriage it would seem that his will is for you to respect, support and love each other.
My marriage would not be valid if I took it to a tribunal, which I have no intention of doing. The ring on my finger signifies my dedication to Christ, who is the cornerstone of my marriage.
I wouldn’t worry about the details of your marriage, but about how you are getting along with each other. If there is a lot of arguing and fighting, that is the problem you need to address, not the validity of your marriage.
Please seek marriage counseling. People have been able to get help and rebuild the relationship they once had.
The key to a good relationship is respect. Make sure that whenever you talk to your husband, it is with respect. Pray for him.
God bless.

 

[Vico]

I appreciate all the replies and I wish it were as simple as saying, “I have a valid marriage I should be happy”. But it is not, there are serious doubts in my head and all the arguing and fighting aren’t helping those thoughts.

For clarification we were both baptized (non-Catholics) when we married. Neither one of us attended church regularly until several years into our marriage. As sad as it may sound God was not discussed at all when we were dating or in marriage prep. We did a silly Myers Briggs personality test with a Methodist minister whom we had met once before our wedding day. We chose that church cause it was cheap and pretty. I was baptized Anglican as my parents would tell me that “we are like Catholics, but we believe in divorce because that is what King Henry did and we don’t put emphasis on Mary”. I’m paraphrasing but that was pretty much how I understood it growing up.

At any rate I’m not saying I want a divorce, if I did I would simply seek one. What I do want is peace in my mind and my heart.

So to be invalid, based on the fact the both of you were baptized validly, and married with Methodist form, would require an impediment or invalid consent. One form of the vows are:“Will you have this man to be your husband, to live together in holy marriage? Will you love him, comfort him, honor, and keep him in sickness and in health, and forsaking all others, be faithful to him as long as you both shall live?”

It shows consent to: holy, charitable, exclusive, and lifelong.

So you should ask is that was a lie by either of you, when you were married.

 

[Phemie]

No, a priest cannot make an official declaration about the validity of the marriage.

Besides what others have said, there are some instances where there is little or no doubt that the marriage is invalid. For example, if the couple had married only civilly (and one was Catholic at the time) or if the marriage was under duress (ie shotgun marriage). But there is still a process that must be completed before the person can remarry and that process is done by the tribunal. In the former case, it’s a much shorter and quicker process and does not involve a full investigation but the final word still comes from the tribunal. It’s very possible that a priest may have told this woman that her marriage was “surely invalid” based on the facts but there is still a process that will need to be completed if she wants to remarry.

The law to submit a marriage to the tribunal for examination of validity is a binding law. If anyone, even a Bishop, were to make an official declaration regarding the validity of a marriage, that declaration would itself be invalid.

Actually, the Church does not require that a ‘lack of form’ case be submitted to the diocesan Marriage Tribunal.

Is it usually done? Yes, in the US and Canada. but a dubium on the subject many years ago made it clear that a “lack of form” case can be dealt with by the priest at the pre-nuptial investigation. I know that in my diocese that has been done.

 

[tee_eff_em]

Dear Sfleet,
A marriage is valid unless someone contests it.

Not quite.

Actually, the Church does not require that a ‘lack of form’ case be submitted to the diocesan Marriage Tribunal.

Is it usually done? Yes, in the US and Canada. but a dubium on the subject many years ago made it clear that a “lack of form” case can be dealt with by the priest at the pre-nuptial investigation. I know that in my diocese that has been done.

Yes.

Though marriage does enjoy the favor of the law, and must be upheld unless proven otherwise, some proofs are in the purview of the parish priest (most notably, as [user]Phemie[/user] notes, lack of form cases).

Were this not the case, there would never be recourse to convalidation nor sanation.

tee
Still Not A Canon Lawyer

 

[Buck_Crosswhite]

What if you know that you marriage is invalid. (I know most people will respond with “you can’t know that”). But really if you look at what the church teaches and evaluate if your relationship with your spouse had the right ingredients upon saying your wedding vows, one can say with good certainty that their marriage was valid or invalid.

I say all of this because my spouse and I are miserable with one another and I can’t help but think (I know a very terrible and negative thought) that my marriage is invalid and that God would not want me in an invalid marriage. Even as painful and terrible as divorce is and would be.

How do I get rid of these thoughts of thinking my marriage is invalid, I’ve talked to my pastor, I’m praying daily, I don’t know what to do.

Go to a marriage counselor.