Invincible Ignorance: The Best Way to Be?

[Melodeonist]

Since you require full knowledge of a sin in order to commit a mortal sin, wouldn’t it be best to not know what constitutes as a sin? That way, one would never commit a mortal sin.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Since you require full knowledge of a sin in order to commit a mortal sin, wouldn’t it be best to not know what constitutes as a sin? That way, one would never commit a mortal sin.

You mean that a person would never murder another person? Or rape? Or steal millions of dollars? Or rob on a grand scale?

Those are all objective mortal sins. I simply cannot imagine a world in which John Doe doesn’t know that raping Jane Roe is a sinful behavior.

Maybe “John” can somehow manage to live his life and say at the end, “but I didn’t really know that was wrong, so I didn’t sin mortally”. . .but what do you think Jane will have to say? “Well, obviously, since nobody really knows anything about sin, all I know is that I was violently raped by somebody. I had all the feelings of guilt and shame and anger over that violation. . .but since it wasn’t a sin, guess I can just ‘move on’ here”. . .

 

[pianistclare]

No.
You must be open to education in the faith. There are no shortcuts.
Every person who is a Catholic should be learning right up to the day of their departure from this life.
It’s not something to be taken lightly.
You can see form the many threads that there are quite a few ill educated or misinformed people. Imagine if everyone took their faith as seriously as they do other topics, other life skills, or other interests?
Our church would be full to the rafters and converts abounding.
Study. Read. Pray. Contemplate. No way around it. Not if you really want to know about God.

 

[porthos11]

Since you require full knowledge of a sin in order to commit a mortal sin, wouldn’t it be best to not know what constitutes as a sin? That way, one would never commit a mortal sin.

Problems with this:

1. No one is deemed ignorant of the natural law (CCC 1860). So stealing, adultery, murder, etc., forget it.
2. There is a grave obligation to form the conscience (CCC 1783-1785). Feigned ignorance increases the culpability (CCC 1859), not diminishes it.

So, no. Sorry.

You’ll have a higher chance of making heaven living as a baptized vegetable before dying, rather than living in intentional ignorance.

 

[3DOCTORS]

It might sometimes seem like the challenges of living the faith are overwhelming, or that the invincibly ignorant “get away with” more - and it can be tempting to envy that. I think it happens for conscientious or scrupulous people - or very lazy people - more than for the average person.

I don’t think that’s really how it works though. I think the invincibly ignorant miss out on way more happiness than the pleasures of their sins committed in ignorance could ever bring them. Absence of guilt just brings you to the starting point spiritually. Closeness with God is where the real joy begins. But it will always be a tension between being willing to carry one’s cross or wishing to toss it aside. We need grace and encouragement to keep on carrying it.

The natural law should in most reasonably sane people provide some basis for forming a conscience. At the point such a person might become interested in taking the leap into the Catholic Faith, it might seem daunting. But it’s still worth it.

 

[Crusaderbear]

You would be deliberately being ‘ignorant’ - probably negating it as a defense - are you willing to role those dice?

 

[MarcoPolo]

Since you require full knowledge of a sin in order to commit a mortal sin, wouldn’t it be best to not know what constitutes as a sin? That way, one would never commit a mortal sin.

No because the virtue of the Church builds up the entire world. For instance, when we receive communion in good standing, it benefits the world. The more virtue permeating the world, it is mystically better for all souls (as well as representing a good example and encouraging others who see it). It is to bring grace into the world. So to try to hide from truth in order to avoid sin is a detriment to others. It actually parallels quite well the 3rd person in the parable of the talents who squandered what he was given for fear of making a mistake. And he got thrown into the darkness.

 

[Beryllos]

Since you require full knowledge of a sin in order to commit a mortal sin, wouldn’t it be best to not know what constitutes as a sin? That way, one would never commit a mortal sin.

Being free of guilt through ignorance is not the best way to live. It cannot bring much happiness to one’s life. If one treats others carelessly, takes their property, lies to them, gossips about them, treats their bodies as objects, and doesn’t forgive their transgressions, one cannot live a very joyful life

It is far better to learn and do the right thing. Treat others well, tell the truth, speak well of others, respect the property rights of others, respect one’s body and other’s bodies, love family, friends, and neighbors, and love God. Then life is beautiful.

My dad often says “Keep your eye on the donut, and not on the hole.” Avoiding sin is the hole. Living rightly is the donut.

 

[Rbaker]

Being free of guilt through ignorance is not the best way to live. It cannot bring much happiness to one’s life. If one treats others carelessly, takes their property, lies to them, gossips about them, treats their bodies as objects, and doesn’t forgive their transgressions, one cannot live a very joyful life

It is far better to learn and do the right thing. Treat others well, tell the truth, speak well of others, respect the property rights of others, respect one’s body and other’s bodies, love family, friends, and neighbors, and love God. Then life is beautiful.

My dad often says “Keep your eye on the donut, and not on the hole.” Avoiding sin is the hole. Living rightly is the donut.

Your dad is a smart guy. Food analogies are always good to use

 

[TK421]

Since you require full knowledge of a sin in order to commit a mortal sin, wouldn’t it be best to not know what constitutes as a sin? That way, one would never commit a mortal sin.

It’s possible to commit a mortal sin in a state of invincible ignorance because invincible ignorance only pertains to ignorance of divine revelation, which is something that man could never gather through their inborn conscious & reason alone (for example, you cannot discern the Trinity or the crucifixion & resurrection of Christ through reason: they need to be transmitted through the spiritual works of the Church). Because all pagans possess an imperfect conscious, empathy, & reason as creatures with rational souls who possess an infinite dignity, there are still good pagans and there are bad pagans.

Also, revelation of the Gospel of Christ & obedience to Magisterial teachings produces joy and all other spiritual gifts within the community which it reaches, so just based on temporal reasons alone, it is the belief of the Catholic Church that a society is far better off with the Gospel than without it. A person is interiorly converted more and more to God through their reason, through the inner workings of the Holy Spirit, and through the revelation of the Gospel, and a pagan society is indefinitely stripped of the third element until it is transmitted to them by spiritual works of mercy, and their joy can then “become complete”. Socrates, for example, only ever had the first two and would not have encountered Christ until after death.

“Good News” (Gospel) means “Good News”. A missionary never makes a community worse off by instilling on them a burden of knowledge. Divine knowledge is liberating rather than constraining.

 

[Techno2000]

Since you require full knowledge of a sin in order to commit a mortal sin, wouldn’t it be best to not know what constitutes as a sin? That way, one would never commit a mortal sin.

Sure one might make it to Heaven,but what degree of Glory will one have there?

Council of Florence (1439) declared the souls of the perfectly just clearly behold the Triune and One God as he is, but corresponding to the difference of their merits, the one more perfectly than the other.** The Council of Trent defined that the justified person merits an increase of the heavenly glory by good works**. (Ludwig Ott, Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, 479)

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[PelagiathePenit]

It might sometimes seem like the challenges of living the faith are overwhelming, or that the invincibly ignorant “get away with” more - and it can be tempting to envy that. I think it happens for conscientious or scrupulous people - or very lazy people - more than for the average person.

I don’t think that’s really how it works though. I think the invincibly ignorant miss out on way more happiness than the pleasures of their sins committed in ignorance could ever bring them. Absence of guilt just brings you to the starting point spiritually. Closeness with God is where the real joy begins. But it will always be a tension between being willing to carry one’s cross or wishing to toss it aside. We need grace and encouragement to keep on carrying it.

The natural law should in most reasonably sane people provide some basis for forming a conscience. At the point such a person might become interested in taking the leap into the Catholic Faith, it might seem daunting. But it’s still worth it.

Very true. It can be quite envious of nonbelievers who feel no guilt for committing sins that keep you up at night. Having a conscience although convicting is a wonderful thing. Ignorance is not admirable in adults. I know some people who are ignorant about how callous and cruel they are. Sure they feel no guilt or even think they are, but they can’t seem to understand why a lot of people hate them. Ignorance doesn’t prevent consequences.

 

[PelagiathePenit]

No because the virtue of the Church builds up the entire world. For instance, when we receive communion in good standing, it benefits the world. The more virtue permeating the world, it is mystically better for all souls (as well as representing a good example and encouraging others who see it). It is to bring grace into the world. So to try to hide from truth in order to avoid sin is a detriment to others. It actually parallels quite well the 3rd person in the parable of the talents who squandered what he was given for fear of making a mistake. And he got thrown into the darkness.

Sometimes we have to see things from a spiritual perspective to truly understand.