Is abortion today as bad as the holocaust of the Jews?

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I think this is not only a pointless exercise akin to asking whether its worse to kill your mother or father, but its also one that is extremely offensive to many people who disagree that children are people. Theirs may not be a rational position, but the holocaust is an extremely emotional issue. For this reason, we must tread carefully…

But also, I don’t think the argument is persuasive. I doubt many people would be ambivalent towards abortion if they thought only some people were being killed, but against it if they realized tons of people were being killed. This is a preaching-to-the-choir type argument that only polarizes the opposition against us. I can see it now on pro-abort websites: “Pro-lifers claim Planned Parenthood as bad as Nazis!”
 
chosen_people said:
I would like to thank the posters here for helping to mark yesterday’s Holocaust Rememberance Day with this thread 🤷

Here are a few possible starting points for the discussion connecting between the Shoah and abortion:

Catholic animosity to the Weimar republic and the reasons behind it and abortion

The ideas and acceptance of the ideas in the book Katholizismus und vaterland by Father Erhard Schuland and abortion

The vote by the Zentrum party for the Hitler enabling act and abortion

The Reichskonkordat and abortion

The rescinding of the ban for Catholics to join the Nazi party and abortion

The cooperation of the Catholic Church in providing Church records to ascertain the religion of civil servants and abortion

Archbishop Konrad Grober and abortion

Bishop Hilfrich and abortion

Jedwabne Poland July 1941 and abortion

😊
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lol, the combination of your name and religion, on a catholic forum I might add, is hilarious.
 
mommamaree said:
:confused::confused::confused:

Why would we want to cater to the emotional needs of people who do not see children as people?
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Our ultimate objective is not to sit back and marvel to ourselves how bad abortion is, but to convince others that abortion is bad. To do so, we must find common ground, and avoid polarizing those who oppose us.
 
Abortion today is a holocaust and it is way worse than the holocaust that happened during World War II. The number of abortions performed in the United States alone since 1973 is very close to the 50 million mark. The World War II holocaust on the other hand killed between 11 million and 17 million people. Even if we take the larger number of the World War II holocaust casualties, we still see that the number of children killed by abortion is more than double the number of those killed in the World War II holocaust.

Abortion is the modern day holocaust and it must be put to a stop!
 
The first problem is the insensitivity of depreciating from the the unique horror of the Shoah in using it as a comparative and not very apt example. The second problem is using the genocide of the Jewish people in a Catholic context considering the role of the Catholic Church both in classic Christian anti-Semitism and modern anti-Semitism, which led to the Shoah. To this must be added the problematical role of the Church during the Nazi era, subsequent efforts to ironically make the genocide against the Jews into a Christian phenomena (including an attempt to place a giant cross at the final resting place of two million Jewish victims) to the latest acts of forgiveness and understanding given by the Church to the rabid anti-Semite Williamson. The third problem in using a Jewish genocide analogy to the act of abortion in a Catholic context, is that Judaism has a contrary moral value in instances where the mother’s life may be in danger. The fourth problem concerns comparing the nature of abortion concerning the right of women to their bodies and the termination of an as yet non viable fetus when compared to the wholesale mass murder of normative living breathing productive people for the crime of not being Gentiles.

However, once we get over the insensitivity, bad taste and illogic of the analogy, I can see that indeed we are are open to wide range of similar comparisons. For instance, “abortion today is as bad as the Crusader massacres of the Jews”, or “abortion today is as bad as the murderous Christian pogroms in Spain”, or abortion today is the new Inquisition or “abortion today is the new blood libel”.
 
chosen_people said:
The first problem is the insensitivity of depreciating from the the unique horror of the Shoah in using it as a comparative and not very apt example. The second problem is using the genocide of the Jewish people in a Catholic context considering the role of the Catholic Church both in classic Christian anti-Semitism and modern anti-Semitism, which led to the Shoah. To this must be added the problematical role of the Church during the Nazi era, subsequent efforts to ironically make the genocide against the Jews into a Christian phenomena (including an attempt to place a giant cross at the final resting place of two million Jewish victims) to the latest acts of forgiveness and understanding given by the Church to the rabid anti-Semite Williamson. The third problem in using a Jewish genocide analogy to the act of abortion in a Catholic context, is that Judaism has a contrary moral value in instances where the mother’s life may be in danger. The fourth problem concerns comparing the nature of abortion concerning the right of women to their bodies and the termination of an as yet non viable fetus when compared to the wholesale mass murder of normative living breathing productive people for the crime of not being Gentiles.

However, once we get over the insensitivity, bad taste and illogic of the analogy, I can see that indeed we are are open to wide range of similar comparisons. For instance, “abortion today is as bad as the Crusader massacres of the Jews”, or “abortion today is as bad as the murderous Christian pogroms in Spain”, or abortion today is the new Inquisition or “abortion today is the new blood libel”.
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I have to agree with this…the analogy is not valid for so many reasons and is actually complete and utter garbage. There is not one person that is setting out to kill all these fetuses…no one has anything against fetuses either. In the holocaust there was 1 guy that wanted to eliminate the Jews.

The analogy is SERIOUSLY offensive and completely nonsensical. Every person that has an abortion (well pretty much everyone) makes the choice themselves, as an individual…they aren’t forced into it and they likely don’t have anything against fetuses.

I think it is disgusting that anyone could compare abortion to the holocaust. What happens if you get aborted according to the church??..you go straight to heaven without having to go through the pains of life…WHAT A TRAGEDY!!!
 
chosen_people said:
The first problem is the insensitivity of depreciating from the the unique horror of the Shoah in using it as a comparative and not very apt example. The second problem is using the genocide of the Jewish people in a Catholic context considering the role of the Catholic Church both in classic Christian anti-Semitism and modern anti-Semitism, which led to the Shoah. To this must be added the problematical role of the Church during the Nazi era, subsequent efforts to ironically make the genocide against the Jews into a Christian phenomena (including an attempt to place a giant cross at the final resting place of two million Jewish victims) to the latest acts of forgiveness and understanding given by the Church to the rabid anti-Semite Williamson. The third problem in using a Jewish genocide analogy to the act of abortion in a Catholic context, is that Judaism has a contrary moral value in instances where the mother’s life may be in danger. The fourth problem concerns comparing the nature of abortion concerning the right of women to their bodies and the termination of an as yet non viable fetus when compared to the wholesale mass murder of normative living breathing productive people for the crime of not being Gentiles.

However, once we get over the insensitivity, bad taste and illogic of the analogy, I can see that indeed we are are open to wide range of similar comparisons. For instance, “abortion today is as bad as the Crusader massacres of the Jews”, or “abortion today is as bad as the murderous Christian pogroms in Spain”, or abortion today is the new Inquisition or “abortion today is the new blood libel”.
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You really hit knock-out punch with this one. As someone who is pro-life, Catholic, and thinks that bigorty (in particular against God’s chosen people) is among the worst sins, if not the worst, thanks for saying this.

The term holocaust is simply too loaded, and rightfully so. The worst part about the Holocaust was that horror that many victims LIVED through.
 
Chosenpeople, you make the start of several good points without recognizing the big picture. The examples you cite are all evidence that the capacity of humanity for atrocity against our fellow man is not an external influence, it is an internal fatal flaw present in all peoples from all cultures and all religions. I certainly grant you your point that catholics are as susceptible to this fatal flaw as anybody else. (Notably absent from your list of horrors is the utter and complete slaughter of whole peoples and cultures when the Israelites entered the land of Caanan… Not a small number of innocent Palestinians suffer the same fate today, mind you.) You still seem to be attempting to hang the cause of these horrors on external influences (namely christianity if I read you right) rather than internal human sinfulness. Why?

I previously noted above why the Jewish Holocaust is subjectively different from the tragedy of abortion. But objectively, the underlying cause is the same: Fear of the threat posed by the “other guy” who is then denigrated to subhuman status so that he can be disposed of. The level of specific hatred, as others have noted, is not the same. Thank God. But a dead person is just as dead if murderd via hatred or apathy.
 
hellopeople said:
I What happens if you get aborted according to the church??..you go straight to heaven without having to go through the pains of life…WHAT A TRAGEDY!!!
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There is no official Church teaching on this. We entrust *all *to God’s mercy of course but it could be that they are excluded forever from Heaven on account of their not receiving baptism. Once again I pray for God’s mercy here but I would not be presumptuous
 
hellopeople said:
No abortions aren’t as bad as the holocaust. Killing an unborn baby is different than torturing and killing humans that are fully capable of understanding what is going on around them. Just like how killing a living person is worse than killing an unborn baby.
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A LOT of conjecture here…

Your basing this on life events and thereby saying that because a fetus has no “Life” events and that it is therefore not capable of knowing what is around it? or is your thought that a Fetus cannot feel pain?

As far as Pain goes…A study is going on now to determine when a fetus feels pain. I am sure that many people truly and honestly thought the world was flat, but eventually they had to open their eyes to fact that we live on a globe.

As far as your first statement that would then pose that life’s worth is based on experiences and therefor someone with either more life’s events or knowledge of them is more valuable?

So is killing a 20 year old vegetable more acceptable then a cognizant 80 year old?

Is it more acceptable for to kill a 4 year old with less life experiences then a 22 year old College graduate.

I think something is not right with values here?

What if it is proves that a Fetus knows that it is in a womb? Will you find some other excuse? Is executing an adult, instantaneous death, more vile then Chemically scalding a fetus if the fetus can feel pain and it takes 4-6 hours to destroy 60% of its skin prior to premature birth?

Is dismemberment of an 80 year old vegetable more or less relevant then dismemberment of a 1 Day old? What about a -1 day old dismembered in the birth canal, what about a -7 day old. Dismembered in the womb?

Terrible Choices…I say they are equally heinous actions. One is currently legal now, just like the killings in Germany of adults or ancient Rome were…

God Bless you …Please Pray for Me…
 
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