Is annulment shameful?

[JRKH]

Laudatur Iesus Christus.

The last exchange set a sour note for this, but since it is 12:08 a.m., here goes anyway:

APRIL FOOLS:

I did not really fancy* this topic.

Thanks to everyone who contributed to the thread. It has been illuminating.

Gaudete, Christus resurrectus est!

John Hiner

---

*Compact Oxford English Dictionary, verb, meaning 3, askoxford.com/concise_oed/fancy?view=uk.

Are you saying that the entire premise of this thread was bogus?
If so I find it to be in poor taste.
There are many people who can be hurt by such statements as the title of your thread implied.
Annulments, like divorces are not things entered into lightly sinces they affect the rest of your life and the state of ones soul.

If I have misinterpreted the above post, then I apologize for my rant. If not then shame be upon you for your insensativity.

Peace
James

 

[Angainor]

So long as a marriage lasts it is considered as valid.

I don’t see how this can be true. Annullment doesn’t cause a marriage to be invalid, annullment proceedings discover that a marriage is and has been objectively invalid from the beginning.

Imagine if I had a list of all current marriages. They are all lasting so according to you they are all “considered as valid.” But presumably there would be a non-zero number of them that would some time in the future end up in divorce and annullment. The participants in those particular marriages would be wrong in thinking their marriages were valid. Until actual annullment proceedings are finalized, there is no way to know which marriages on the current list of marriages are valid.

I hope this helps to clarify some things.

Its clear as it is going to get.

I’m not giving anyone any advice. I’m just saying what I would do. I would immediately try to challenge the validity of my marriage. If it is found valid, I could (for example) be certain that my wife would not, sometime in the future file for an annullment and discover our marriage was never valid.

I would sleep better at night knowing my wife was my wife.

P.S. Yes, it would be rotten if someone started an April Fool post, but I think there has been some good exchanges none-the-less.

 

[JRKH]

I don’t see how this can be true. Annullment doesn’t cause a marriage to be invalid, annullment proceedings discover that a marriage is and has been objectively invalid from the beginning.

Imagine if I had a list of all current marriages. They are all lasting so according to you they are all “considered as valid.” But presumably there would be a non-zero number of them that would some time in the future end up in divorce and annullment. The participants in those particular marriages would be wrong in thinking their marriages were valid. Until actual annullment proceedings are finalized, there is no way to know which marriages on the current list of marriages are valid.

I do agree that it can be difficult to get a handle on. Canon Law can be like that. (Civil law too for that matter.)
I wish I could think of a good analogy to try and help explain it. The simplest thing I can say is that, as regards annulments, the church won’t go looking for problems. So long as the marriage remains intact, the church will treat it as a sacramentally valid marriage. There is no reason to think otherwise. However, if an individual who’s marriage has already ended applies for an annulment the Church will investigate it.

Its clear as it is going to get.

I’m not giving anyone any advice. I’m just saying what I would do. I would immediately try to challenge the validity of my marriage. If it is found valid, I could (for example) be certain that my wife would not, sometime in the future file for an annullment and discover our marriage was never valid.

I would sleep better at night knowing my wife was my wife.

P.S. Yes, it would be rotten if someone started an April Fool post, but I think there has been some good exchanges none-the-less.

I’m afraid you are being a bit overscrupulous here. I’m sure that you, like most of us won’t think of this once you decide to marry. However,
when you do determine to get married, you will attend the pre-cana sessions to learn about the rights and responsibilities of marriage. If you have concerns about validity you can bring them up to your councilor at that time.

Finally, I do agree that there has been some good discussion here, but I am still upset that someone would think this an appropriate topic for a joke.

Peace
James

 

[Phemie]

The simplest thing I can say is that, as regards annulments, the church won’t go looking for problems. So long as the marriage remains intact, the church will treat it as a sacramentally valid marriage. There is no reason to think otherwise.

It will treat it as a valid marriage. Sacramental doesn’t necessarily enter into it. Not all valid marriages are sacramental.

 

[JRKH]

It will treat it as a valid marriage. Sacramental doesn’t necessarily enter into it. Not all valid marriages are sacramental.

Excuse me. My ignorance is showing.

Mea Culpa

 

[skmhubbard]

Although Mr. Hiner’s comments may have seemed “harsh” or “judgemental,” he has expressed, better than I could, a dilemma which I am observing in my family right now.

I have a close relative, who is currently considering divorce. This person is also investigating Catholicism. The marriage took place in a Protestant denomination and has produced two young children. Both parties were raised in Christian homes (though outside the Catholic faith), where they were clearly taught the sanctity of marraige. The reasons for divorce are primarily unhappiness and the inability to get along. I know both spouses well, and though they both have their problems, I believe there is hope for the marriage, and I have been praying hard that the church’s teachings on the sanctity of marraige may sink in before irreparable damage is done.

However, practically speaking, wouldn’t it be more advantageous for this person to go ahead and divorce? Then, if they enter the Church, they can apply for an annulment and almost certainly be given the chance to “find someone else,” while staying in communion with the church? If the marraige can, and most likely will, be found null, should I be praying for it’s health? Does God not want them to stay married?

I in no way desire to deny the truth of the church’s teachings. But I am truly confused in this case. It appears to me that for my relative to honor their marraige and accept any emotional suffering which is taking place as holy and part of the sanctification process, is not, according to the Church, the best choice.

I understand that in cases of coersion, abuse, etc., one may enter into a marriage that is not valid, but I also think that there are not many people, maybe none at all, who are fully aware of the responsibilities and committment they are undertaking. Does this mean that the vast majority of us could receive annulments from the Church?

I am frightened because the ready availability of factors which would justify annulments seems to give us, as Catholics, just as much of an “out” as the no fault divorce does in the civil realm.

What reason can I give my relative for staying in the marraige? Is it even a marraige at all? The two young children certainly think it is, as well as my four young children, who are in danger of losing a loved member of their extended family.

 

[JRKH]

Although Mr. Hiner’s comments may have seemed “harsh” or “judgemental,” he has expressed, better than I could, a dilemma which I am observing in my family right now.

I have a close relative, who is currently considering divorce. This person is also investigating Catholicism. The marriage took place in a Protestant denomination and has produced two young children. Both parties were raised in Christian homes (though outside the Catholic faith), where they were clearly taught the sanctity of marraige. The reasons for divorce are primarily unhappiness and the inability to get along. I know both spouses well, and though they both have their problems, I believe there is hope for the marriage, and I have been praying hard that the church’s teachings on the sanctity of marraige may sink in before irreparable damage is done.

However, practically speaking, wouldn’t it be more advantageous for this person to go ahead and divorce? Then, if they enter the Church, they can apply for an annulment and almost certainly be given the chance to “find someone else,” while staying in communion with the church? If the marraige can, and most likely will, be found null, should I be praying for it’s health? Does God not want them to stay married?

I in no way desire to deny the truth of the church’s teachings. But I am truly confused in this case. It appears to me that for my relative to honor their marraige and accept any emotional suffering which is taking place as holy and part of the sanctification process, is not, according to the Church, the best choice.

I understand that in cases of coersion, abuse, etc., one may enter into a marriage that is not valid, but I also think that there are not many people, maybe none at all, who are fully aware of the responsibilities and committment they are undertaking. Does this mean that the vast majority of us could receive annulments from the Church?

I am frightened because the ready availability of factors which would justify annulments seems to give us, as Catholics, just as much of an “out” as the no fault divorce does in the civil realm.

What reason can I give my relative for staying in the marraige? Is it even a marraige at all? The two young children certainly think it is, as well as my four young children, who are in danger of losing a loved member of their extended family.

There are almost never any easy answers to these dilemas.
Pray for God’s will to be done for these people. For the Glory of God in their lives and for the winning of souls. Do not pray for a specific resolution which might pit your desires against God’s plan for them.

As far as advise to your relative goes, you can only give from your heart. If you feel there is hope for the marriage, then you should try to help both of them to see that as best you can. Be sure to do so gently, and let them know that you will support them in whatever decision they come to.

Do NOT follow your reasoning above about getting a divorce before entering the Church so as to gain advantage in an annulment proceeding. This could contaminate and subvert the process. It could force your relative, or yourself into a situation where you would be less than perfectly truthful in answering the questions put to you by the annulment tribunal and this would place your soul in peril.

There is much discussion about the number of annulments granted, but the issue is extremely complicated and emotionally charged. Each case must be judged on it’s own merits. If the process is honestly entered into and honorably pursued, then the result will be pure and correct. If it is not honestly and honorably pursued the result is contaminated. The results of this is something that has to be lived with for the rest of ones life.

Speaking as one who has been through the process I can say that I have had qualms since the decree was issued. I go back and review the data to be sure I was as honest as I could be. If I had not been honest, the guilt could well be be unbearable.

Peace
James

 

[rpp]

Laudatur Iesus Christus.

The last exchange set a sour note for this, but since it is 12:08 a.m., here goes anyway:

APRIL FOOLS:

I did not really fancy* this topic.

Thanks to everyone who contributed to the thread. It has been illuminating.

Gaudete, Christus resurrectus est!

John Hiner

---

*Compact Oxford English Dictionary, verb, meaning 3, askoxford.com/concise_oed/fancy?view=uk.

If this was indeed a bogus thread, it only goes to reinforce my earlier contention that it was most uncharitable. More than that, it amplifies it and changes it into something worse. Intentionally cruel.

It reminds me of the antagonist character in the movie Sling Blade. He would the most outrageously insulting and vicious things, Then after stunning his victims into silence, he would say, “You know I am just fooling, right?” At the end of the movie, he is killed. When I saw this in the theater, the audience applauded.

 

[John_Hiner]

Laudatur Iesus Christus.

Dear skmhubbard:

Thank you for your generous words about my seeming harshness. I remain firm in my decision that it would not be useful to extend the engagement of the public issues of shame in this thread. It is clear that whatever benefits could be gained from the emotional venting triggered by that topic were exhausted in the single day that “April fools” allows to such things. However, your post addresses the private side of the public question, “what should one do?” This question does seem to require at least some further comment.

The Savior was quite clear:

But from the beginning of the creation, God made them male and female. For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother; and shall cleave to his wife. And they two shall be in one flesh. Therefore now they are not two, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. (Mark 10:6-9.)

This refers not to Marriage as a Sacrament but to natural unions, and especially to natural unions where children are granted by God – an act of particular creation in each case. Thus it is the clear and stated will of the Savior that no sexual union ever be broken. If a person is doing what the Savior wills, then he will never take a spouse who is illicit, and will never put away a spouse whom he has taken.

Now this might need to be clarified. This does not refer to marriage as we commonly use the term. The Savior’s argument rests on the nature of sex from the beginning of creation and it is the sexual union which makes the one flesh, inside or outside of formal marriage. The Church uses the term, “natural union.”

This truth of sexual love is an instance of something that is true of love itself; all love, properly understood, is eternal. Hence, it is never proper for anyone to “tire of,” “grow apart from,” or “abandon” any person whom God has put in their path and thereby commanded to love. Men are commanded to love one another as Jesus loved (John 15:12). Yet, “Yea I have loved thee with everlasting love, therefore have I drawn thee, taking pity on thee (Jeremiah 31:3).

In this light, the Lord does not will that any sexual union end, especially one that has been blessed with children. He wills that this union be the basis of a family. If a person’s union is natural, then it is within the purview of what has been true “from the beginning of the creation.” So long as there is no question of incest between the spouses or other similar impediment that cannot be cured, the command of the Lord is to dedicate oneself to love within the family, which one has made and God has blessed.

The Sacrament of Marriage is a fulfillment of this will to make holy and permanent such a natural bond. So, one considering entry into the Church should not put away his spouse and then hope for another union, but should do what is needed to learn to love as Christ loved and to strengthen the natural union into a sacramental union – “sacrament” implies “commitment” in its very root meaning.

If there is some curable defect in a natural union, the Savior wills that it be cured, not that the union be abandoned. If one is unskilled in love, the Gospel requires that one acquire, practice, perfect, and use those skills. If the union has not been dedicated to the service of God, then one should seek to have it validated by the Holy Church and made sacramental.

This is the law written in man’s heart “from the beginning” and it is the will of the Savior. If one fails to do this, then one has sinned – whether one is personally guilty of the sin is a relatively minor matter, if one is concerned first with the justice of the Kingdom rather than with one’s own interests. The sins implicated in such failures are fornication and adultery, as well as a sort of sacrilege that refuses to make a natural union sacramental as Christ wills and teaches through His Church.

Yet, “. . . from the heart come forth evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false testimonies, blasphemies" (Matthew 15:19). “Hardness of heart” led Moses to allow “a bill of divorce;” it is the same failure in man’s core which forces the Church to undertake the “annulment process.” At root, the Lord desires that these defects of heart be cured. This can be done by cooperation with the grace of the Holy Spirit in the Church. Any other approach falls short of Christ’s will and God’s command.

It would be blasphemous to use the fact that Christ will forgive a sin as an excuse to commit the sin in the first place. One should obey Christ’s will, and only if overpowered should one turn to ask forgiveness. This is so for at least two reasons: (1) it better serves the Kingdom; and (2) one can only be forgiven if one is contrite, and it is difficult to regret a decision one has taken because of one’s best judgment after careful reflection; one is too likely to continue to think that “on balance” the sin was the “right thing to do.” This is dangerously close to calling “good evil and evil good.”

I hope these comments are of some help. One cannot predict what human beings will do, especially under pressure. This is why human estimates of what to do, second-guessing outcomes and trying to predict the future for a particular family, are seldom successful. In such matters, one must have confidence in Christ, the one who sees what other men cannot see, and do as He has directed, even when it looks to human eyes to be futile or a “bad idea.” That is a practical part of what faith in Him means.

Pax Christi nobiscum.

John Hiner