Is Atheism the new way?

[PatThePoet]

Prominant atheists say that dwindling numbers of Christians in Europe and the West is proof that science and reason is triumphing over myth. That religion is being finally put in its place, that soon there will be no Christians (or other religious followers) and truth will be universal.

Is the falling numbers in Christanity and the growing atheism proof there is no God?

PLEASE HELP!

 

[MindOverMatter]

Prominant atheists say that dwindling numbers of Christians in Europe and the West is proof that science and reason is triumphing over myth. That religion is being finally put in its place, that soon there will be no Christians (or other religious followers) and truth will be universal.

Is the falling numbers in Christanity and the growing atheism proof there is no God?

PLEASE HELP!

Dwindling numbers could be just as much to do with deception and ignorance, rather then the falsity of any belief. The arguement is not proof of anything but the fact that Atheism is more populor then Christianity. The truth has to be known through reason, not the number of people that agree or disagree. If 99 percent of the population believed in God, this would not be proof of his existence.

If your looking for evidence of God, this takes rigorous studying. Do not waste your time listening to Atheists; They will say anything to make their belief sound reasonable.

 

[richardwy]

Prominant atheists say that dwindling numbers of Christians in Europe and the West is proof that science and reason is triumphing over myth.

Prominent Romans say that the large number of Christians killed the past year is proof that the small Jewish sect is merely a flash in the pan.

Imagine someone “important” said something like that to other important folk during the 1st couple hundred years.

 

[Mirdath]

The argument from numbers doesn’t work for anyone – popularity makes nothing correct.

 

[bogeydogg]

Also do not forget that while the Christian Church may or may not be dwindling in Europe and America it is growing exponentially in sub-saharan Africa, India and China despite terrible persecution in every area.

I suppose that should come as no surprise considering that the early Church was terribly persecuted but grew by leaps and bounds anyway because of the truth of the Apostles and the forcefulness of the Apostolic Tradition with the early bishops.

I think it may be safe to say that the thing most seriously wrong with the Church in Europe and America is that the Church is not being persecuted for Her faith and it is the comfort of the western continents which has lulled it into a state of lethargy.

In fact I have a friend who jokingly likes to say, “The only thing wrong with the Church in America is no one is killing us.”

I think if a person who lives everyday in constant threat of arrest, persecution and death were to come here and spend a day watching Daystar they would have a hard time identifying most of us as Christians at all. How strange we must seem being sucked in by preachers promising us that God wants to make us rich to those who die for the faith.

Just a thought.

 

[Minnie31]

Prominant atheists say that dwindling numbers of Christians in Europe and the West is proof that science and reason is triumphing over myth. That religion is being finally put in its place, that soon there will be no Christians (or other religious followers) and truth will be universal.

Is the falling numbers in Christanity and the growing atheism proof there is no God?

PLEASE HELP!

It’s not a proof that there is no God. There is no proof that there is no God just as there is no proof that God exists. I think people are thinking more today about christianity and questioning it instead of blindly accepting it as true.

 

[AmyS]

I think secularism it “the new way” right now… But, there have always been things like this through out time. Arianism comes to mind.

 

[Cajetan]

Prominant atheists say that dwindling numbers of Christians in Europe and the West is proof that science and reason is triumphing over myth. That religion is being finally put in its place, that soon there will be no Christians (or other religious followers) and truth will be universal.

Yeah right. The Muslim population in Europe (thanks to the liberal immigration laws drawn up by atheists) is more than making up for the dwindling Christian population in terms of “repping” religion. Europe will be under Sharia Law before it becomes a liberal atheocracy.

This is what the new atheists do not understand: what they have to offer humanity is no match for Islam. When they threw away Christianity, they threw away the only thing that could possibly combat the thriving Arab religion.

And you know what? Europe will probably be better off under the Muslims. At least they have a degree of respect for us, “People of the Book.” But situation might also be what triggers a Christian rebirth in Europe, once atheists start to realize that their lack of faith is powerless.

 

[Cajetan]

The argument from numbers doesn’t work for anyone – popularity makes nothing correct.

I agree. The argument from popularity should be a fallacy. Very often what is popular is irrational.

It’s why Socrates did not like the system of democracy: just because the majority votes for something does not make it true or right.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

The issue is not the rightness but the facts of change. I do think that there is a redefining of faith and spirituality. That is why I believe that some churches are finding their numbers dwindling and where additions are being made, they tend to be ideologically different. Pentacostalism and evangelism seem on the rise in Catholicism. As so many leave the Church in Europe, the upswing seems a good deal more rigid in its orientation. Those falling away from organizied religion seem to be finding an evolving spiritual connection. I think religion is always evolving and changing. Some for the better, some for the worse. Over time, i think there are upsurges, downsurges and times of calm. I don’t think it’s anything new, but I do see a growing common awareness of oneness being expressed. Those churches who choose not to promote interfaith dialog will I predict grow smaller. I don’t think its atheism at all. It’s a redefinion of what it means to believe in God and be connected to God that is at work.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

I agree. The argument from popularity should be a fallacy. Very often what is popular is irrational.

It’s why Socrates did not like the system of democracy: just because the majority votes for something does not make it true or right.

No, you are correct. Socrates was more in favor of an enlightened philospher being a sole determiner for sure. I do believe he felt that to be unlikely in practice. Much like Plato, democracy was seen as the best of bad choices.

 

[Cajetan]

The issue is not the rightness but the facts of change. I do think that there is a redefining of faith and spirituality. That is why I believe that some churches are finding their numbers dwindling and where additions are being made, they tend to be ideologically different. Pentacostalism and evangelism seem on the rise in Catholicism. As so many leave the Church in Europe, the upswing seems a good deal more rigid in its orientation. Those falling away from organizied religion seem to be finding an evolving spiritual connection. I think religion is always evolving and changing. Some for the better, some for the worse. Over time, i think there are upsurges, downsurges and times of calm. I don’t think it’s anything new, but I do see a growing common awareness of oneness being expressed. Those churches who choose not to promote interfaith dialog will I predict grow smaller. I don’t think its atheism at all. It’s a redefinion of what it means to believe in God and be connected to God that is at work.

Well, that’s one way of looking at it… fortunately, however, most Catholics today don’t get their theology from Küng and Schillebeeckx, America and Commonweal. That kind of thinking in the Church has been on the way out for a long time now, and will probably be dead when the last remnants from the “Spirit of Vatican II” era utter their final heresy and kick-off. (Not that this makes them wrong! It is the conflict of their thought with the Church’s Magisterium which does so.)

I predict a lot less inclusive language and a lot more habit-wearing in our future.

 

[Filius99993]

The argument from numbers doesn’t work for anyone – popularity makes nothing correct.

Why don’t you tell that to my AP European History teacher. She tells me on my beliefs of morality that “most people aren’t going to agree with you.” I don’t think she believes in any particular Truth. And it’s really depressing, because there isn’t anyone person or truth to guide her (except for Joel Osteen, blech )

 

[Pier]

To answer your original question… not even remotely.

But keep praying - they need it.

 

[VociMike]

Prominant atheists say that dwindling numbers of Christians in Europe and the West is proof that science and reason is triumphing over myth.

If they’re really saying that then they should be able to show through science and reason that God doesn’t exist. But they can’t do that and most of them know it.

That religion is being finally put in its place, that soon there will be no Christians (or other religious followers) and truth will be universal.

Is the falling numbers in Christanity and the growing atheism proof there is no God?

PLEASE HELP!

Atheism is just a vacuum into which belief forms of some kind or another will flow.

Besides, who says that atheism based on science and reason is growing? As opposed to atheism of the “path of least resistance” variety, which makes no claims as to truth and falsehood.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

Well, that’s one way of looking at it… fortunately, however, most Catholics today don’t get their theology from Küng and Schillebeeckx, America and Commonweal. That kind of thinking in the Church has been on the way out for a long time now, and will probably be dead when the last remnants from the “Spirit of Vatican II” era utter their final heresy and kick-off. (Not that this makes them wrong! It is the conflict of their thought with the Church’s Magisterium which does so.)

I predict a lot less inclusive language and a lot more habit-wearing in our future.

You make no specific references to anything I said, so I have no clue what exactly you are referring to. I only get that you hated Vatican II and consider it heretical, a favorite word on this forum. Of course, that makes a number of popes heretical as well.

 

[Mirdath]

Why don’t you tell that to my AP European History teacher. She tells me on my beliefs of morality that “most people aren’t going to agree with you.” I don’t think she believes in any particular Truth. And it’s really depressing, because there isn’t anyone person or truth to guide her (except for Joel Osteen, blech )

She’s right, most people aren’t going to agree with you on various topics, and you’d do well to at least hear them out, see if you can reach understanding and find common ground where you do agree, because it’ll make life a lot easier for all concerned.

This cuts both ways: the argument from dissent or even persecution is just as useless as the argument from popularity. You are no more correct because people don’t like what you have to say; if you’re correct, you are so in spite of that.

 

[Cajetan]

You make no specific references to anything I said, so I have no clue what exactly you are referring to.

I think we’ve already established that you’re not very quick on the uptake.

I only get that you hated Vatican II and consider it heretical, a favorite word on this forum. Of course, that makes a number of popes heretical as well.

No ma’am. I’m on good terms with Vatican II and each Holy Father during and subsequent to the Council. My views on the Council are the same as John Paul II’s.

What I hate is the phenomenon of Catholic dissent – on the “left” and the “right” – which erupted in its wake and continues to rear its ugly head. Neither side gives assent what the Council documents themselves say. The “right” (SSPX, etc.) judges them to be invalid, and the “left” (Küng, “Earth Mother” Chittister, Commonweal, etc.) distorts their message.

 

[HelenRose]

Prominant atheists say that dwindling numbers of Christians in Europe and the West is proof that science and reason is triumphing over myth. That religion is being finally put in its place, that soon there will be no Christians (or other religious followers) and truth will be universal.

Is the falling numbers in Christanity and the growing atheism proof there is no God?

PLEASE HELP!

I would not put a whole lot of stock in what prominant atheists have to say. There is not a single one of them who could match intellegence with our Beloved Pope Benedict XVI.

 

[Cajetan]

I would not put a whole lot of stock in what prominant atheists have to say. There is not a single one of them who could match intellegence with our Beloved Pope Benedict XVI.

What is interesting about this new atheist movement and criticism is how the professional philosophers – both atheists and theists – are leaving it well alone. Back in the day atheistic philosophers like A.J. Ayer and Bertrand Russell would holds debates with Catholic philosophers such as F.C. Copleston, S.J., about the existence of God or the role of theology in Ethics, etc. These were perennial philosophical topics, handled philosophically and with a great deal of care and respect, and this was great. This was the sign of a more-or-less healthy intellectual culture.

I think most philosophers recognize that the discourse and interests of Richard Dawkins/Chris Hitchens/Sam Harris are anything but philosophical. It is ideology, not rationality. It is ruled by emotions, not reason. You’ve basically got foul-mouthed men standing up there preaching to the choir about “flying spaghetti monsters” and how “Christians are imbeciles” and “religion causes all the pain and suffering in the world,” and passing this off as sound argumentation. No self-respecting, genuine intellectual would be caught dead at one of these pathetic ad hominem-laced displays.