Is Catholicism divided just like Protestantism, when you think about it?

[Memaw]

Catholics commonly say that Protestants are divided into “30000” denominations, and that Christ’s truth does not exist among 30000 denominations that contradict each other, because Christ prayed for unity when he was on earth.

But, aren’t Catholics just as divided? Liberal parishes, liberal orders, $$PX, cafeteria Catholics, dissenting Catholics, dissenting clergy? Also, the heresies that have splintered off over time? How about the Great Schism?

The Church, the teaching Magisterium and the Authority of the Pope, will never be divided. We are the ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC and APOSTOLIC Church founded by Jesus Christ 2,000 years ago and will be here till the end of time, the same Church, teaching the same doctrine. Many Catholics are not always faithful to the Church, liberal, cafeteria Catholics etc. some leave and start their own idea of what the Church should do. But the Catholic Church will always be the same. The Holy Spirit guides and protects Christ’s Church and HE will try to bring back the unfaithful. But we do have a free will and the choice is up to us if we want to be faithful or not. Study Church History and you will see the Church has kept the faith throughout all the trials, wars, Heresy’s, kingdoms, governments etc., and will do so till the end of time. How many Catholics remain faithful till the end is known only to God. Pray we are among them. God Bless, Memaw

 

[ChurchSoldier]

Catholics commonly say that Protestants are divided into “30000” denominations, and that Christ’s truth does not exist among 30000 denominations that contradict each other, because Christ prayed for unity when he was on earth.

But, aren’t Catholics just as divided? Liberal parishes, liberal orders, $$PX, cafeteria Catholics, dissenting Catholics, dissenting clergy? Also, the heresies that have splintered off over time? How about the Great Schism?

You are actually correct in the underlying principle. If we apply the same guidelines to the RCC as far as denominations are concerned, the same study which states there are several tens of thousands Protestant denominations also state there are several hundred Roman Catholic ones.

But we do not even need to go that far, the claim is that there is “one” true church, and so to refute it there only needs to be shown one other church that is recognized. We can do that by, as you mentioned, looking at the Great Schism when the Orthodox acknowledged the division from the Roman Church. If one does not want to accept that, there are the 20 something Eastern churches separate, but in communion with the Pope. And of course the SSPX is only called separate due to the relations with Pope, not due to not fully believing the Catholic faith.

Great post. Thanks.

 

[Goya]

You are actually correct in the underlying principle. If we apply the same guidelines to the RCC as far as denominations are concerned, the same study which states there are several tens of thousands Protestant denominations also state there are several hundred Roman Catholic ones.

But we do not even need to go that far, the claim is that there is “one” true church, and so to refute it there only needs to be shown one other church that is recognized. We can do that by, as you mentioned, looking at the Great Schism when the Orthodox acknowledged the division from the Roman Church. If one does not want to accept that, there are the 20 something Eastern churches separate, but in communion with the Pope. And of course the SSPX is only called separate due to the relations with Pope, not due to not fully believing the Catholic faith.

Great post. Thanks.

Nonsense.

This entire thread, is absolute non-sense.

We are bound in the Spirit, which is manifest in the Sacraments.

The Mass–the sacrifice of the Mass–the readings, the liturgical calendar, the authority which affords them validity…whether in Rome, Italy, or Rome, Georgia…or the Pampas in Argentina…or in the Philippines…or in the South Africa…or Kenya…it’s the exact same Mass.

The same sacraments are celebrated.

The same APOSTOLIC AUTHORITY validates it all.

Different schools of thought within the ONE TRUE HOLY CATHOLIC AND APOSTOLIC CHURCH that Christ actually founded, is the definition of UNITY.

‘Unity’ does not suggest identical, personality-less, mindless, conformity. It is unity in the Spirit, in the Faith, and in the Sacraments.

We are many, diverse people from diverse cultures, languages, schools of thought, opinions, political ideologies, on and on…

…in one Church–which recognizes St. Peter’s primacy amongst the apostles, a succession provided therefore, and the same for the Apostles.

Rhetorical question to underscore the point:

Why did Christ hand pick 12 Apostles, amongst many disciples? Why is there a clear distinction in the Bible, of the Apostles vs. the disciples?

The question answers itself…and in doing so, sheds light for understanding the nature of the Church that Christ actually bequeathed to us.

 

[ChurchSoldier]

Nonsense.

This entire thread, is absolute non-sense.

We are bound in the Spirit, which is manifest in the Sacraments.

The Mass–the sacrifice of the Mass–the readings, the liturgical calendar, the authority which affords them validity…whether in Rome, Italy, or Rome, Georgia…or the Pampas in Argentina…or in the Philippines…or in the South Africa…or Kenya…it’s the exact same Mass.

The same sacraments are celebrated.

The same APOSTOLIC AUTHORITY validates it all.

Different schools of thought within the ONE TRUE HOLY CATHOLIC AND APOSTOLIC CHURCH that Christ actually founded, is the definition of UNITY.

‘Unity’ does not suggest identical, personality-less, mindless, conformity. It is unity in the Spirit, in the Faith, and in the Sacraments.

We are many, diverse people from diverse cultures, languages, schools of thought, opinions, political ideologies, on and on…

…in one Church–which recognizes St. Peter’s primacy amongst the apostles, a succession provided therefore, and the same for the Apostles.

Rhetorical question to underscore the point:

Why did Christ hand pick 12 Apostles, amongst many disciples? Why is there a clear distinction in the Bible, of the Apostles vs. the disciples?

The question answers itself…and in doing so, sheds light for understanding the nature of the Church that Christ actually bequeathed to us.

Wow. Actually except for your first two sentences I agree with almost everything in your post using the definitions that you do. All I am suggesting is to apply the guidelines to uniformly. I heard people quote the 30,000 (or 20,000 and even 40,000) number so often I just took the time to research it a bit. Turns out when applied the same way to the Roman Catholic Church as to the Protestant, the Catholics have many more than “one”. It doesn’t bother me. Even Scripture speaks about the Apostles complaining to Jesus that “others who are not of our group are casting out demons in your name” and He tells them not to worry about it.

It doesn’t even bother me if you continue to believe that there is “one” and by that you mean Roman Catholicism. If it makes you more comfortable, go ahead. I even understand if you lived your whole life being taught there is the one church and then you were shown that there are actually more than one who hold valid authority, how it might be disconcerting. This forum is about dialogue, even if it shakes things up a bit.

Thanks for your response.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

Catholics commonly say that Protestants are divided into “30000” denominations, and that Christ’s truth does not exist among 30000 denominations that contradict each other, because Christ prayed for unity when he was on earth.

But, aren’t Catholics just as divided? Liberal parishes, liberal orders, $$PX, cafeteria Catholics, dissenting Catholics, dissenting clergy? Also, the heresies that have splintered off over time? How about the Great Schism?

Well to start with, a dissenting Catholic is still actually a Catholic; while a dissenting Baptist isn’t actually a Methodist.

 

[Dave_Noonan]

Not really as those claiming to be Catholic while against Church teaching are not actually Catholic. The large number of people out there that can be described this way certainly make things confusing for both outsiders as well as those inside the Church.

But isn’t this true of 70-80% of the Catholic Church in the U.S.–who are against some aspect of Church teaching?

 

[oldcatholicguy]

But isn’t this true of 70-80% of the Catholic Church in the U.S.–who are against some aspect of Church teaching?

The other poster is incorrect in stating that they are not Catholics. They are just not “good” (as in maintaining and practicing the teachings of the faith) Catholics. The only Catholics who can be labeled as not being Catholic are the one’s who have renounced the faith (and here they are still technically Catholic due to baptism).

 

[thenobes]

CS,

It’s not a matter of denominations per se, but one of teaching authority.

…I heard people quote the 30,000 (or 20,000 and even 40,000) number so often I just took the time to research it a bit. Turns out when applied the same way to the Roman Catholic Church as to the Protestant, the Catholics have many more than “one”. It doesn’t bother me. Even Scripture speaks about the Apostles complaining to Jesus that “others who are not of our group are casting out demons in your name” and He tells them not to worry about it.

That is, He is saying not to stop them from doing Good in His Name.

Nowhere does He say to allow them to teach error. Error divides. In fact He gives the church a means to correct error (that is, to correct teachings that would lead other away from Christ). If your brother sins against you…

To accomplish this unity in Truth, the means must be a visible one, and one that continues visible, authority, to wit, apostolic authority. There is no other possible way to enforce the teaching of truth. There is no other way to present a consistent and valid teaching to those both outside and inside of the Church.

It doesn’t even bother me if you continue to believe that there is “one” and by that you mean Roman Catholicism. If it makes you more comfortable, go ahead. I even understand if you lived your whole life being taught there is the one church and then you were shown that there are actually more than one who hold valid authority, how it might be disconcerting. This forum is about dialogue, even if it shakes things up a bit.

If there were more than one valid teaching authority, then Christ would have authorized confusion and contradiction.

peace
steve