Is Catholicism Dying?

[Crescentinus]

I wouldn’t say anyone on this thread thinks would want to live where there is more struggle, pain and suffering but the facts show what they are saying about Western culture. Personally I think there is much more to it than that. I know that in the 1950s the US was both prosperous and the Catholic Church was flourishing. Personally, I think that contraception plays a large part in the fall of faith in the west as well. It allows people to fulfill some of their most base but strong desires when they want, with whom they want, and without any bad concequences. Yes, family fall apart, peoples feeling are hurt, people kill themselves and others, yet, our government and economy protect the vast majority from the economic results of bad behavior. At least in places like the Phillipines, usually people are suffering, not due to their own bad habits etc as in the US, but because of the evil that exists in the world, like corrupt governments, etc.

I would warn you though, that the lifestyle in the west is like a drug. I have known several people who have come to the US with faithful kind children, only to see those children get sucked into the western culture, into crime, drugs, and sex. They wish they had never come but now that they are addicted, they won’t go home. They children are not hungry, the don’t work long hours just to get by, but they are not happy, both emotionally and spiritually.

I’ve seen many blame the Catholic Church for all sorts of ills here in Asia. Whenever I read their accusations, I can’t help but facepalm since the accusations are mostly filled with abstractions and vitriol.

Personally, I would not want to have a family in the West.

 

[iamcatholic100]

You and lynnvinc have great insights and are examples of what we all need to be doing in our work for God and his Church here on Earth. God Bless you and your faith

St. Donatus, thank you so much for your reply . There are a couple of things that I like to add. Even though I’m still young in my faith, I’ve come to realize that there are lots of things in every day life that harm people’s souls. And I know that the Church is againt these immoral practices, not just contraception, abortion, homosexuality, etc., but also slavery, corrupted governments, riots, gang wars, poverty, drug abuse, ex cetera.

The situation the world is in is both paradoxical and ironic, in my opinion. A third world country may be war torn, but most of its people are filled with faith and hope, because they have something to look forward to. In contrast, a western country may be the most technically advanced and enlightened country in the world, yet most of its people don’t have hope, faith or even a reason to live. Is it any wonder that the suicide rate for a country like Haiti is almost non existent when compared to a country like Hungary?

God bless you for your faith too!

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Personally I think there is much more to it than that. I know that in the 1950s the US was both prosperous and the Catholic Church was flourishing.

We need more statistics like this (even though culture-wise, I despise the American 1950s).

I would warn you though, that the lifestyle in the west is like a drug. I have known several people who have come to the US with faithful kind children, only to see those children get sucked into the western culture, into crime, drugs, and sex. They wish they had never come but now that they are addicted, they won’t go home. They children are not hungry, the don’t work long hours just to get by, but they are not happy, both emotionally and spiritually.

Well over here, people aren’t as spiritually and emotionally happy either. Sometimes I have doubt these statistics because I and many other Filipinos certainly aren’t pleased in living in the Third World. I am personally sick of the masses being brainwashed by Marxist telenovelas hell-bent on milking and portraying class-struggle cliches dry. I tire of walking by beggars and hopeless children because they remind me of my fears over keeping my job secure and what I have to do just to avoid their fate. It’s the same with the news. Every time that I’m reminded of how poor my country is and what little I can only do about it, I only find such statistics either insulting or at least disturbing.

This is further exacerbated by my own convictions towards my own faith. Do you have any idea how hard it is to defend a religion that values this type of poverty? The Catholicism I believe in values the dignity of the human person. The poverty in this country is no more, and heck, maybe even less dignifying than the lack of faith in developed countries.

The situation the world is in is both paradoxical and ironic, in my opinion.

I just wish this paradox or irony doesn’t give people the delusion that one place is better than the other.

You have no idea about how troubled we middle-class Filipinos are with regards to living in this economy.

 

[St_Donatus]

We need more statistics like this (even though culture-wise, I despise the American 1950s).

Well over here, people aren’t as spiritually and emotionally happy either. Sometimes I have doubt these statistics because I and many other Filipinos certainly aren’t pleased in living in the Third World. I am personally sick of the masses being brainwashed by Marxist telenovelas hell-bent on milking and portraying class-struggle cliches dry. I tire of walking by beggars and hopeless children because they remind me of my fears over keeping my job secure and what I have to do just to avoid their fate. It’s the same with the news. Every time that I’m reminded of how poor my country is and what little I can only do about it, I only find such statistics either insulting or at least disturbing.

This is further exacerbated by my own convictions towards my own faith. Do you have any idea how hard it is to defend a religion that values this type of poverty? The Catholicism I believe in values the dignity of the human person. The poverty in this country is no more, and heck, maybe even less dignifying than the lack of faith in developed countries.

I just wish this paradox or irony doesn’t give people the delusion that one place is better than the other.

You have no idea about how troubled we middle-class Filipinos are with regards to living in this economy.

We all need to remember that we each have a battle against the Devil. He tries to use the best weapons against us based on our situation. In many parts of the world he uses starvation, pain, and other weapons, in the US and western Europe he uses immorality, money, materialism, selfishness, family break down etc. Most would rather deal with the problems in the US than in poorer countries since we all have our selfish desires. But poverty as a gift to God is very much appreciated by God. As the Bible says, it is harder for a rich man to get into the kingdom of God than a camel to get through the eye of a needle and we can see why.

We all need to use the armor God has given us through the Bible and his Catholic Church to fight the devil. May God bless.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Most would rather deal with the problems in the US than in poorer countries since we all have our selfish desires. But poverty as a gift to God is very much appreciated by God. As the Bible says, it is harder for a rich man to get into the kingdom of God than a camel to get through the eye of a needle and we can see why.

Sorry but there’s something wrong with beliefs like this. My point is what you call ‘selfish desires’ gets confused with what people call a desire to a better life.

Again, I ask, how can the Church teach as you’ve just said, valuing poverty, yet have Social Teachings that are all for eliminating that poverty? That’s a high point of hypocrisy and I daresay that the Church has had enough of that accusation.

 

[St_Donatus]

Sorry but there’s something wrong with beliefs like this. My point is what you call ‘selfish desires’ gets confused with what people call a desire to a better life.

Again, I ask, how can the Church teach as you’ve just said, valuing poverty, yet have Social Teachings that are all for eliminating that poverty? That’s a high point of hypocrisy and I daresay that the Church has had enough of that accusation.

You are not understanding many of the things I said. Poverty in itself is a bad thing and that is why the Church works to eliminate it. What is valued by God is how we deal with that poverty. The rich man has no pain in his stomach from hunger while he tries to say his nightly prayers. He is not surrounded by crime like those in poverty. What excuse does he have for not worshiping God in a grand way?

Yet, the poor who suffer on a daily basis, when they give God glory, it is a wonderful and powerful gift. Don’t try to tell me about poverty, perhaps not the poverty of the Philipines but I know poverty none the less. After my mother died, I was passed from one relative to another. I lived with three different relatives in different areas when I was five years old alone. I have lived for years with no plumbing, no running water, no electricity, would wake up in the morning when it was 35 degrees below zero for weeks and months on end in my little shack. What food I had was spoiled but I ate and was glad for it. The meat I had would turn green in the spring from lack of refrigeration, but I would eat it because it was all I had. My water was bad from the dead animals in it, but I drank it because the closest running water was miles away. During the long winters, my water was always frozen solid in the morning so I would start a fire and two hours later I could clean myself for the day. I know poverty my friend, but I also recognize that the worship of one who suffers so is much more valuable to God than that of the rich.

Don’t feel sorry for me, because my poverty was just that of food, drink, and the things of life, but at one time I also had poverty of the soul and heart. Believe me, personally I would much rather suffer from poverty of food and drink. I survived poverty of food much better than the poverty of the soul, I almost didn’t survive. I couldn’t or wouldn’t cleave to God, my only hope. To me, that is true poverty.

Thanks be to my God and holy Church as it values the prayers and worship of these poor, hungry souls while the world values only those that achieve worldly achievements. The world ignores and spits on the poor. They treat them as worthless and nothing while our God and his holy Catholic Church value them much more than the worldly achievers. Yes, sometimes the Church has to court the wealthy so they can have the resources to server the poor, but that is life in this world that Satan and man has twisted so perversely.