Is Catholicism for the individual or the community?

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NoelFitz

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Is Catholicism for the individual or the community? Is our religion focused on the fate of the individual or the people of God? Is religion about our individual relationship with God or the relationship of humanity and its creator?

I used to think that Catholicism focused on the Church community (Communion of Saints) more than Protestants who emphasized the relationship between the individual and its God. Is it correct to cliam that In the ancient world the individual did not count, but in Christianity the centre is the individual?

But I am reading Henri de Lubac and he points out that the new idea introduced by Christianity was the belief in the salvation of all, e.g. ‘common destiny of mankind’, ‘salvation of the human race’ and ‘the whole universe cries out for its deliverance and is sure to obtain it’ (H. de Lubac Catholicism, ch V).

Please help me clarify my thinkung.
 
Community. Communion of saints. God cares about each and every one of us, but we are to care for the other (not the self), hence the community is of great importance. The word “catholic” itself means universal, and not individual.
 
As previously stated by HopkinsReb…yes

Disclaimer – I am expressing my opinion and not looking for validaiton or argument, so I limit my (name removed by moderator)ut to a single post per thread. Send me a PM, and I will be happy to continue the discussion without monopolizing this fine venue.
 
HopkinsReb said:
To answer the question in your title…

Yes.
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That’s what I was going to say. 😜

But, truly, the answer is both. It’s not just “me and Jesus”, but we do want to have a personal relationship with the Lord.
 
If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together.

I Corinthians xii, 26.

-Fr ACEGC
 
It might be helpful to split the question into two parts. As far as the early Church was concerned, which is what Lubac is dealing with, the contrast was between the still new Christian religion and the long-established religions of Greece and Rome. Only later, as far as we know, there arose the divisions within the Christian church, or between one Christian church and another.

On the first point, Christians vs. pagans, Edwin Hatch, a nineteenth-century Anglican theologian, summed up the contrast very clearly:

[For present-day Christians] religion is a personal bond between God and the individual soul. We cannot believe that there is any virtue in an act of worship in which the conscience has no place … [We are] overlooking the entirely different aspect under which religion presented itself to a Roman mind. It was a matter which lay, not between the soul and God, but between the individual and the state. Conscience had no place in it. Worship was an ancestral usage which the state sanctioned and enforced. It was one of the ordinary duties of life. The neglect of it, and still more the disavowal of it, was a crime. An emperor might pity the offender for his obstinacy, but he must necessarily either compel him to obey or punish him for disobedience.

On the second point, the individual vs. community view within the Christian church, I think you’re right that one is more characteristic of Protestants and the other of Catholics, though on both sides there are gray areas. On the Catholic side, for instance, I have the impression that the charismatics tend more toward the individual approach, while on the Protestant side Lutherans and some Anglicans tend more toward the community approach.

That Hatch quotation is from his last book, The Influence of Greek Thought and Usages Upon the Christian Church:

 
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[edward_george1

If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together.

I Corinthians xii, 26.

-Fr ACEGC
 
Ontheway 1

I like your reply.

We are here to love God and neighbour. A generous religion sounds better than a selfish one, focusing on making sure I get to heaven.

Joe_5859

I agree the Catholic Church is a both/and Church. But your reply could encourage one to run with the hare and hunt with the hounds. Your reply indicates we should focus on community, but on the other hand focus on ourselves.
 
Thanks for all the replies.
My fundamental problem is that I cannot accept I am forgiven. Now I am old I keep remembering sins.
I have raised my concerns several times, with different emphases. I cannot see why God would create anything, as nothing adds or takes away from his happiness. His creation track record does not seem great, angels fell, people rejected him in Eden, and he himself was crucified.
So I feel I cannot do much, so it is consoling to realise that I am part of the Holy Church, and helped by the Body of Christ.
Answers in this thread seem to focus on ‘both/and’ (‘community and individual’) positions with the greater emphasis on community.
I am reading now the Pope’s Misericordia et Misera. It is powerful and stresses mercy, forgiveness and acceptance of sinners.
Some quotes from section 5 will give a flavour:
‘…it is time to look to the future with joy, fidelity and enthusiasm…’
‘May almighty God have mercy on us, forgive us our sins, and lead us to everlasting life.’
‘that we, who are bowed down by our conscience, may always be lifted up by your mercy.’
‘Look not on our sins but on the faith of your Church.’
‘through th ministry of the Church may God give us parden and peace.’
 
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