Is chastity presented in the wrong manner?

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AdamP88

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This is inspired by a recent thread, but I want to make it clear that it’s in no way intended to continue that discussion. I want to focus on a specific aspect and more generally on how chastity/virginity is presented or thought about by those in Catholic/Christian circles.

A lot of groups promote the virtue of chastity and remaining a virgin until marriage. And many seem to frame it as being a “gift for your spouse”. The problem with this is that you can still be a gift for your spouse if you don’t remain chaste. And that it sets up a kind of idea that virginity is something “owed to a spouse” rather than something we hold onto before marriage because it’s the right thing to do. Many people seem to latch on to that idea and it turns into the main reason (or a powerful reason) for being chaste.

Perhaps I’m wrong but it seems to me that it would be more correct and healthier to promote chastity for its own/our own sake rather than for someone else who we haven’t met yet. it’s ultimately our soul that suffers from sexual sin, not an imaginary “future spouse”. Should the primary reason for being chaste not be “because Jesus wants us to” rather than “Because I want a virgin wife” or “because my spouse deserves it”?
 
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As an agnostic looking in on ideas about virginity here on CAF and other religious circles, I couldn’t agree with you more. I’ve read more than once in these circles that the idea of virginity is prized so highly it becomes seen as an entitlement. That’s often a red flag for me, if I see it. And speaking as an agnostic, I think chastity is undervalued in both religious and secular circles.
 
I think you are right that the primary reason should be that it’s God’s will for us, but most people are going to ask the next rational question, which is, “WHY is that God’s will?” And the natural answer to that question is to list the benefits of saving sex for marriage, one of which is the bond between the husband and wife. Some people will take that too far and have a sense of entitlement because, well, some people do that with pretty much everything.
 
AdamP88 said:
A lot of groups promote the virtue of chastity and remaining a virgin until marriage. And many seem to frame it as being a “gift for your spouse”. The problem with this is that you can still be a gift for your spouse if you don’t remain chaste. And that it sets up a kind of idea that virginity is something “owed to a spouse” rather than something we hold onto before marriage because it’s the right thing to do. Many people seem to latch on to that idea and it turns into the main reason (or a powerful reason) for being chaste.
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What the Catechism says (and the Church teaches) about chastity, and what “some groups” or individual people (including parents) teach about chastity are often radically different things.

In the Catechism, you really don’t even find any reference to virginity except in the context of consecrated virginity. So, it’s not a thing.

In Protestant circles it’s very much a thing. And that has bled over into well meaning but misguided and often destructive ideas about sexuality. Of course, this comes down to us from a long standing cultural norm in the west related to women and virginity, specifically. Nothing to do with religion, and everything to do with cultural norms and historical expectations of women. “Good girls don’t” is alive and well as a cultural expectation at the same time the culture also messages “everbody does it”. So, yeah, kids are getting all sorts of awful messages.

The parents, who should be the primary educators of their children particularly in sexuality often say “don’t” but really don’t say why or expound on the virtue of chastity at all.

What the catechism says about chastity:
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P85.HTM

and about purity:
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a9.htm

Nope, no mention of virginity and gift of virginity to spouse. Which IMHO: blech.
 
Yes that whole gift analogy thing is troubling.

So here you go, my gift to you! Where is mine? What? You gave your gift to someone else?
 
The idea of virginity being something one person gives another is really unhealthy.
 
FWIW, I agree with you. I was not and am not keen on the idea of a spouse who was all interested in me being a virgin. The guys I met who were like that were not good Catholic men or even good religious men of any type. They were excited about virginity because to them, being a girl’s “first” was a status thing, like being the first to drive a brand new car. It was gross. I made sure the man I married didn’t care one way or the other and just wanted me for my self.

It would have been better presented to me as chastity being something God wants, so you’re staying chaste for God, not for some human.
 
I think the idea of it being a gift also tends to work against people who, for whatever reason, do not have that. If chastity is split into virginity/nonvirginity, what’s the point if you’re already not a virgin?

For those who have already sinned, it renders chastity an essentially pointless exercise. It tends towards the idea that those who are not virgins are already “ruined”. Somehow this always ends up applying mostly to women. But if you’re already not with the person you lost your virginity to, what’s the harm of a few more people? It’s not like you were going to be a virgin on your wedding night anyway. Or even for those who refrain, it can be a discouragement from pursuing what could be happy, fruitful marriages due to feeling unworthy.

More horrifically, it’s a concept that ends up being used brutally against rape victims. We have seen many cultures, even Catholic ones in recent history, where a woman is pressured to marry her rapist in order to preserve her purity. (Look up the case of Franca Viola in Italy in the 60’s.) Or at least women who have been raped can very easily get the idea that they are damaged by their inability to offer their virginity to their husband. From what I have seen this is often especially the case for those who may have appeared to have “consented” in situations where they were not really able to refuse, due to age or power imbalance.

Edit: I would also like to point out that the focus on having to give your virginity to your partner really makes a hash of marriages to widows or widowers. Something that is perfectly allowed with no violations of chastity at all and was routinely practiced and even encouraged throughout christian history. We see less of it today due to the elimination of many of the reasons young people died, but historically among many classes it was common and even expected for a widow or widower to remarry quickly.
 
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I think that the focus should be on the virtue of chastity. One could make a mistake every now and then but the virtue chastity is more encompassing than just virginity. After all, what good is virginity if the only reason for your virtue is the lack of opportunity to do wrong?
 
DarkLight said:
We have seen many cultures, even Catholic ones in recent history, where a woman is pressured to marry her rapist in order to preserve her purity. (Look up the case of Franca Viola in Italy in the 60’s.)
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Thanks for mentioning this; I had never heard of this story, so I looked it up. Fascinating. Good for her for refusing to marry him; I can’t even begin to imagine what married life would have been like with a husband who had kidnapped and repeatedly raped you. It’s hard to believe that there was such cultural pressure on a woman to marry her rapist as late as the 1960s (and quite possibly later, as the Wikipedia article on her said that the Italian law exonerating a rapist of criminal charges if he married his victim remained law until 1980-something).
 
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Imagine being raped? And forced to marry one’s rapist?

That would be a definite example of ‘covering up a sin with a greater sin’. Rape is more a crime of violence, than one of sex. No woman can consider herself ‘safe’ while living with a rapist!

I once heard of marrying a non-virgin compared to being forced to eat a cookie crumb, after being promised the entire cookie! To our credit, it wasn’t from a Christian source. But gross, all the same!

Chastity is between God and the individual-male or female. Giving oneself to another can sound good, but think of the realities!
 
poche said:
I think that the focus should be on the virtue of chastity. One could make a mistake every now and then but the virtue chastity is more encompassing than just virginity.
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I agree. The focus on virginity also tends to promote girls being “technical virgins” in that they do not have intercourse or other activities that would normally break a hymen, but they do everything else.

I have met men who actually would seek out Catholic or Christian girls because such girls were reputed to do everything other than intercourse. I have also met men who, if a girl said she was a virgin, would try to get her to do acts other than intercourse by telling her he knew ways they could make love and have her stay a virgin.

Obviously there are many ways to be unchaste and still be a “technical virgin”. Which is missing the point.
 
And seriously, what is up with the gender differences in how it’s treated?
 
building on the last of your comments, given what our Lord says about even looking with lust upon another, how many of those who seek virginity in a spouse can say, honestly, that they have never failed in that regard, and if they have failed (i.e., a habit of porn usage), what is the qualitative difference?
 
QwertyGirl said:
The idea of virginity being something one person gives another is really unhealthy.
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I have to agree with you. I can see why it came about with the advent of Chastity speakers and groups. And I can see why it seems like a good idea. But the problem is that it’s not really what chastity is about.
To be honest, in recent years I’ve begun to think that the whole idea of Chastity prayer groups or speakers is a bit odd. It needs to be presented as a whole package and just a part of being Catholic, and having a healthy sexuality rather than something to “give” to another person.

Obviously there are benefits to your spouse to not having slept around, but the primary reason for chastity is because it is good for the person themselves.
 
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