Is denying Christianity/Jesus under extreme duress

[pnewton]

And I’m sure they weren’t shunned if they repented of their denials.

They were by some. One of the interesting controversies of the early Church was whether those who denied Christ and worhipped pagan gods to avoid death could be received back into the Church. Well, we know what the Church has decided, but it was a hot topic back then.

 

[Sir_Knight]

Of course Our Lord forgave Peter - Peter repented. Doesn’t mean he didn’t sin or sin gravely - quite the contrary, especially considering his earlier avowal that he would never deny Him.

That is the key – by denying our Lord, **he sinned **and sinned GRAVELY!

 

[Newbie2]

Hmmm; interesting hypothesis with a twist. What’s makes you presuppose that a torturer
would stop short of asking you to renunciate your faith in your religion and Jesus Christ.
What about forcing you to watch loved ones tortured to death or forcing you to kill to prove your fulfilled apostasy is as authentic as you are telling your torturer. Would you not rather have your aggressor kill you instead ?

No, what I meant is that a person being tortured would LIE to the torturer, saying “OK, I renounce Jesus” or whatever, but not really be renouncing Christ in his heart or his mind, only lying about it to save himself or his loved ones.

Most people have a breaking point, where under torture one would say AND DO almost anything. OR WOULD THEY ? Few would consider accepting the fate of becoming a martyr in some situations. Just a twist with a hypothetical thought to consider.

Yeah, good question. I guess that’s one of those things we’d really not know about unless we found ourselves in such a situation.

By the way, did you see the movie “There will be Blood”? Kinda reminds me of a scene near the end in that movie, except there was no torture involved.

Great movie, methinks, BTW.

How many Saints and Christians in the early Church did become martyr because they would NOT renounce their Faith in Jesus Christ ?

Again, good question. I wonder the ration of martyrs to those who renounced their faith…and how many of those really renounced their faith, or pretended to to avoid death?

 

[Sir_Knight]

Hmmm; interesting hypothesis with a twist. What’s makes you presuppose that a torturer
would stop short of asking you to renunciate your faith in your religion and Jesus Christ.
What about forcing you to watch loved ones tortured to death or forcing you to kill to prove your fulfilled apostasy is as authentic as you are telling your torturer. Would you not rather have your aggressor kill you instead ?

No, what I meant is that a person being tortured would LIE to the torturer, saying “OK, I renounce Jesus” or whatever, but not really be renouncing Christ in his heart or his mind, only lying about it to save himself or his loved ones.

I don’t think that cuts it. Jesus clearly said that whoever denied Him before men, He would deny before His Heavenly Father.

 

[centurionguard]

That is the key – by denying our Lord, **he sinned **and sinned GRAVELY!

I would have ask to what degree are you alluding that yes Peter did sin in his denial of Jesus ?
Are you saying that Peter committed a (“grave mortal sin”) in his denial of Jesus ?
I would in some respect disagree with such an assumption.

Peter really did not deny that Christ was the Son of God. He denied that he knew “the man” or that he was one of Jesus disciples.

For three years in Christ’s ministry Peter and many other disciples walked by His side and listened to Jesus speak with authority often using scriptural text and parables as He preached. Yes; Peter was with Jesus during the miraculous Transfiguration. And yes; it would be Peter who would later answer our Lord when Jesus was asking His disciples, ‘Who do people say that the Son of Man is?’ And they said, ‘Some say John the Baptist; and others, Elijah; but still others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets.’ He said to them, ‘But who do you say that I am?’" (Matthew 16:13-15) ? Peter answered (“You are the Messiah the Son of the Living God”) And Jesus would say; Simon son of Jonah; how is it that you know this ? You did not find this out on your own accord…It was my Heavenly Father who revealed this to you.

My question here: Did Peter have (“full cognizance”) in the spiritual supernatural sense that Jesus was the Son of God in the (“Mystery”) of the Holy Trinity ?

I think that the exact same way Jesus directed the question ("'But who do you say that I am?") could verily be directed in the same manner to each one of us individually.

Do we Catholics (((“REALLY”))) know Jesus (“The Son of God”) because of what we have been taught through the Catechesis of the Church or from the Word of God from
the Ambo ? Or has the Sacrament of Baptism, Holy Communion, and Confirmation opened our eyes more to see Christ Jesus more in the capacity of a spiritual revelation of God writing His laws and the Mystery of who he is on our supernatural Souls ?

After Jesus rose from the dead and later Ascended into Heaven and on Pentecost
we read that all of Jesus Disciples were gathered in the Upper Room and suddenly a wind entered the room and the Holy Ghost descended upon each of them like tongues of fire and their eyes were fully open.