Is Ethnic Israel saved without Christ?

[corrgc]

I know that the only way to the FATHER is through the SON, Jesus Christ. That is clear on my mind as I read through Romans chapters 9-11. But, according to Paul " all Israel will be saved (11:26)" and as regarding thier election "they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. For the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable (11:28b-29)

Paul clearly distiguishes Israel from the Gentiles who are saved by the gospel in verse 28. Thus it does not appear he is talking about the “New Israel”. There appears to be a contradiction in the preceding chapter where Paul describes the Jews as "natural branches of an olive tree that were broken off because of their unbelief and not spared by God.

Which is it?

Are ALL Jews past, present, and future saved due to their ethnicity?

Does this mean that we should not attempt to witness to Jews?

Thank you for your opinions!

Sincerely in Christ,

Corrgc

 

[Fidelis]

First part of my reply–

In the New Testament, it is usually the case that when “Jews” are mentioned, it is talking about ethnic Jews descended from the tribes of Judah and Benjamin that returned to Judea after the Babylonian Exile (the other tribes were dispersed among the nations, mixed in with them and, as distinct “tribes” are considered “lost”).

“Israel” in the NT, on the other hand is almost always a reference to the entire people of God. Where do these people come from? From the nations (Gentiles) among whom the “lost tribes” were dispersed. Thus, the Church, in bringing in the nations to the family of God, includes those who had been dispersed. If this is a foreign concept to you, try reading the NT passages that mention Israel (ncluding quotes from the prophets) and you will see how much sense this makes.

Second part of the reply, dealing with “ethnic” Israel:

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

The glorious Messiah’s coming is suspended at every moment of history until his recognition by “all Israel”, for “a hardening has come upon part of Israel” in their “unbelief” toward Jesus. St. Peter says to the Jews of Jerusalem after Pentecost: “Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out, that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that he may send the Christ appointed for you, Jesus, whom heaven must receive until the time for establishing all that God spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets from of old.” St. Paul echoes him: “For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead?” The “full inclusion” of the Jews in the Messiah’s salvation, in the wake of “the full number of the Gentiles”, will enable the People of God to achieve “the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ”, in which “God may be all in all”.

 

[corrgc]

Fidelis thanks for your response.

From what you stated and quoted from the CCC, it IS still essential that “Israel” recognize Jesus Christ as their Messiah. Thus would you say it is still necessary to witness to our Jewish brethren? Is it ok to suggest that ethnic Jews who have perished over the last 1900+ years without recognizing Jesus as their savior will not reign in heaven with us gentiles that follow Jesus?

Thanks again for your opinions,

Corrgc

 

[Mercurius]

Jesus HIMSELF said that he who DOES Not have the SON DOES NOT HAVE THE FATHER. He who rejects the Son rejects the Father.

Only through Chrsit in His ONE Church is there salvation.

“Ethnic Israel”: Does it even exist anymore?
Middle Eastern Jews ARE real Jews; European “Jews” are mixed breed. They are no longer “pure”

 

[Fidelis]

corrgc:

Fidelis thanks for your response.

From what you stated and quoted from the CCC, it IS still essential that “Israel” recognize Jesus Christ as their Messiah. Thus would you say it is still necessary to witness to our Jewish brethren? Is it ok to suggest that ethnic Jews who have perished over the last 1900+ years without recognizing Jesus as their savior will not reign in heaven with us gentiles that follow Jesus?

Thanks again for your opinions,

Corrgc

For a definitive answer, check out the Declaration Dominus Iesus, especially section IV:
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000806_dominus-iesus_en.html

 

[bigdawg]

corrgc:

I know that the only way to the FATHER is through the SON, Jesus Christ. That is clear on my mind as I read through Romans chapters 9-11. But, according to Paul " all Israel will be saved (11:26)" and as regarding thier election "they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. For the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable (11:28b-29)

Paul clearly distiguishes Israel from the Gentiles who are saved by the gospel in verse 28. Thus it does not appear he is talking about the “New Israel”. There appears to be a contradiction in the preceding chapter where Paul describes the Jews as "natural branches of an olive tree that were broken off because of their unbelief and not spared by God.

Which is it?

Are ALL Jews past, present, and future saved due to their ethnicity?

Does this mean that we should not attempt to witness to Jews?

Thank you for your opinions!

Sincerely in Christ,

Corrgc

St. Paul says that a remnant of the Jews will be saved therefore I believe when Paul uses the term “all” later in Romans 11 he is talking about “all the Jews that will be saved” not that every Jew will be saved. The entire NT is pretty clear that the law can not save and we (Jew and Gentile alike) will be damned if we remain under the law.

 

[Della]

Every person who will be saved will be saved through Christ because he gained the redemption of the whole world by his sacrificial death on the cross. Salvation is available to us only because of Christ’s sacrificial death on the cross. However, this does not mean that all persons who will be saved will have known who Christ was and what he did for us. The Catechism addresses this point here:

“Outside the Church there is no salvation”

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."338

 

[bigdawg]

Della:

Every person who will be saved will be saved through Christ because he gained the redemption of the whole world by his sacrificial death on the cross. Salvation is available to us only because of Christ’s sacrificial death on the cross. However, this does not mean that all persons who will be saved will have known who Christ was and what he did for us. The Catechism addresses this point here:

Note in paragraph 847 that it uses the word “may”, many people now seem to believe that a person outside the Church “will” be saved.

 

[Della]

bigdawg:

Note in paragraph 847 that it uses the word “may”, many people now seem to believe that a person outside the Church “will” be saved.

Sadly, that’s true. And that is the source of relativity, isn’t it–the idea that God is going to save everyone no matter who they were or what they did except maybe Hitler or serial killers or other truly “bad” people.

What the Church clings to is the mercy of God here, but it doesn’t mean to negate God’s justice by doing so. If people think that they are greatly mistaken.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Read Eze 18

 

[Ghosty]

corrgc:

Fidelis thanks for your response.

From what you stated and quoted from the CCC, it IS still essential that “Israel” recognize Jesus Christ as their Messiah. Thus would you say it is still necessary to witness to our Jewish brethren?

Absolutely! In fact, as someone who came to the Catholic Faith through Orthodox Judaism (though I never made a full “conversion” to Judaism, nor am I an ethnic Jew), I’d say that to not witness about the Messiah would be a disservice to true Jews. He’s theirs first, after all. That does mean that Jews should be pressured, as that’s disrespectful. Simply witness and share your Faith openly as we are called to do. To NOT do so would be the height of disrespect.

Is it ok to suggest that ethnic Jews who have perished over the last 1900+ years without recognizing Jesus as their savior will not reign in heaven with us gentiles that follow Jesus?

Thanks again for your opinions,

Corrgc

We don’t know who is damned, we only know that Jews are in the same position as all people with regards to salvation. The CCC and the teachings of the Church are pretty good resources for studying how we are to understand “extra ecclesia nulla salus”.

Peace and God bless!