Is genesis literal?

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Ok, I was just on another thread about evolution and I came upon a statement that it is an incorrect belief to believe in the literal six day creation of earth. Number one says who? Number two why? Number three, if the bible is the inspired word of God then how can genesis be taken as anything other than literal?
 
The answer to your third question is found in understanding the Catechism of the Catholic Church articles 109-117 found here. In finding the answer, I believe you will find the answers to the other two.
 
Ok, I was just on another thread about evolution and I came upon a statement that it is an incorrect belief to believe in the literal six day creation of earth.

Number one says who?
Start with Origen: “What intelligent person will suppose that there was a first, a second and a third day, that there was evening and morning without the existence of the sun and moon and stars? Or that there was a first day without a sky?”
Number two why?
Because God is not a Loki/Trickster who puts deceptive evidence into the universe He created. What we observe in the universe can be trusted and what we observe indicates that a literal interpretation of Genesis is not the correct interpretation of Genesis. Have you got any evidence of a solid dome in the sky into which the sun and moon are set? That is what a literal interpretatin of the “firmament” of Genesis entails.
Number three, if the bible is the inspired word of God then how can genesis be taken as anything other than literal?
If the universe is the work of God, then the correct interpretation of God’s word cannot disagree with the work of God’s hand. We only have copies of the original texts of the Bible, and some of those copies have mistakes - as with the ending of Mark. We still have the original of the universe, no copying involved.

A literal interpretation of some parts of the Bible is not sensible, for example hating your parents [Luke 14:26] or Jesus only saving Israelite sheep [Matthew 15:24]. Some parts of the Bible require a non-literal interpretation. That includes parts of Genesis.

A picture (thanks to K Bertsche) might help here:

rossum
 
Josh << Number one says who? Number two why? Number three, if the bible is the inspired word of God then how can genesis be taken as anything other than literal? >>

Say who? Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI, that’s who! 😛 I know we keep forgetting about those Popes. 👍 See also John Paul II’s commentary on Genesis in his "Theology of the Body" (from EWTN articles). The Catechism as well notes there is symbolical, figurative, allegorical language being used in Genesis 1-3 (especially paragraphs 337, 362, 375, 390, 396).

Number Two: Why? Because God chose not to write a science textbook. God communicated to the primitive Israelite culture of the Mediterranean region in the ancient language and primitive science they could understand at the time. That’s what JPII and B16 tell us, and that’s what most modern theologians and biblical scholars believe also. The Bible is STILL the inspired Word of God (2 Tim 3:15-17; 2 Peter 1:19-21).

To take Genesis and the Bible literally on science means we must believe the earth is flat since that was the view of the earth the Israelites, Egyptians, and Babylonians had (they were neighbors and all wrote similarly of a flat earth). Fr. Stanley Jaki, O.S.B., a distinguished Hungarian physicist and Benedictine theologian, on the flat and fixed earth of the Bible:

“If asked about his physical surroundings or about the physical world at large, the typical Israelite would have given a reply very irritating to the modern mind. It is irritating to say the least to hear that the earth is a flat disk, the sky an inverted hard bowl, and that the two form a vast tent-like structure. Of course, other inhabitants of the ancient Near-East would have given similar answers…To be sure, much the same would have been done by a typical ancient Egyptian and Babylonian…The hardness of the sky, but especially the immobility of the earth, had to appear all the more a divinely ordained physical fact as, according to the Bible, a mere man, Joshua, could be authorized by God to stop the sun and the moon in their tracks and, apparently, for a whole day…Obviously, to modern eyes dazzled by space rockets cruising along ‘world lines’ set by Einstein’s four-dimensional cosmology nothing could seem more jarring than the Bible’s physical world, which is little more than a glorified tent. To that tent the Bible assigns the sky as its cover and the earth as its floor, though hardly in a consistent way. In Genesis 1 the sky is a firmament, that is, a hard metal bowl, whereas in Psalm 104 and Isaiah 45:24 it is more like a canvas that can be stretched out…Herein lies one of the non-trivially unscientific aspects of the world as described in the Bible…Well before the advent of modern science, and indeed of heliocentrism, the contrast between that biblical world-tent and the world of Aristotelian-Ptolemaic geocentrism had to appear enormous.” (Stanley Jaki, Bible and Science, pages 19-25)

PhilVaz view: was there a literal talking snake? Probably not. Was everything (all plants and animals) created literally from a puff of smoke (or man literally from dirt) in six days? Definitely not, since science gives us the time span in billions of years (the universe is about 13+ billion, the earth 4.5 billion). We know when things “appeared” on earth through evolution generally: first life about 3.5 billion years ago, then single-cell creatures before multi-cell, fish before amphibians and tetrapods, primitive tetrapods before reptiles, reptiles before mammals and birds, primates and homo sapiens show up only in the past few million years. God is responsible for all of this.

What does the “six days” mean then? It symbolizes the work week, and we “rest” as God did – see the Catechism 337-338, and Ludwig Ott on creation and evolution:

“As the Sacred Writer had not the intention of representing with scientific accuracy the intrinsic constitution of things, and the sequence of the works of creation but of communicating knowledge in a popular way suitable to the idiom and to the pre-scientific development of his time, the account is not to be regarded or measured as if it were couched in language which is strictly scientific…The Biblical account of the duration and order of Creation is merely a literary clothing of the religious truth that the whole world was called into existence by the creative word of God. The Sacred Writer utilized for this purpose the pre-scientific picture of the world existing at the time. The numeral six of the days of Creation is to be understood as an anthropomorphism. God’s work of creation represented in schematic form (opus distinctionis – opus ornatus) by the picture of a human working week, the termination of the work by the picture of the Sabbath rest. The purpose of this literary device is to manifest Divine approval of the working week and the Sabbath rest.” (Ott, Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, page 93, cf. Exod 20:8)

See also the Cardinal Schonborn catechetical lecture for 11/13/2005 reprinted/retranslated in his book Chance or Purpose

Phil P
 
Ok, I was just on another thread about evolution and I came upon a statement that it is an incorrect belief to believe in the literal six day creation of earth. Number one says who? Number two why? Number three, if the bible is the inspired word of God then how can genesis be taken as anything other than literal?
Well Josh - one must come to see that the bible is written in many literary styles and in four senses.

In fact the Catholic Church, levering its 2,000 year old traditions, insights and scholarly insights has formally defined the kinds of senses in scripture.

From The Catholic Catechism:

115 According to an ancient tradition, one can distinguish between two senses of Scripture: the literal and the spiritual, the latter being subdivided into the allegorical, moral and anagogical senses. The profound concordance of the four senses guarantees all its richness to the living reading of Scripture in the Church.

116 The literal sense is the meaning conveyed by the words of Scripture and discovered by exegesis, following the rules of sound interpretation: "All other senses of Sacred Scripture are based on the literal."83

117 The spiritual sense. Thanks to the unity of God’s plan, not only the text of Scripture but also the realities and events about which it speaks can be signs.
  1. The allegorical sense. We can acquire a more profound understanding of events by recognizing their significance in Christ; thus the crossing of the Red Sea is a sign or type of Christ’s victory and also of Christian Baptism.84
  2. The moral sense. The events reported in Scripture ought to lead us to act justly. As St. Paul says, they were written “for our instruction”.85
  3. The anagogical sense (Greek: anagoge, “leading”). We can view realities and events in terms of their eternal significance, leading us toward our true homeland: thus the Church on earth is a sign of the heavenly Jerusalem.86
    118 A medieval couplet summarizes the significance of the four senses:
The Letter speaks of deeds; Allegory to faith;
The Moral how to act; Anagogy our destiny.87
119 "It is the task of exegetes to work, according to these rules, towards a better understanding and explanation of the meaning of Sacred Scripture in order that their research may help the Church to form a firmer judgement. For, of course, all that has been said about the manner of interpreting Scripture is ultimately subject to the judgement of the Church which exercises the divinely conferred commission and ministry of watching over and interpreting the Word of God."88

So to properly understand the many different layers of scripture one must have an apostolic context of tradition to draw on.

If one tries to apply a literal-only view of scripture then in many books of the bible one will quickly encounter contradictions with other books of the bible that a literal view can never answer. I can give you examples if you like.

Hope this helps,
James
 
Well Josh - one must come to see that the bible is written in many literary styles and in four senses.

In fact the Catholic Church, levering its 2,000 year old traditions, insights and scholarly insights has formally defined the kinds of senses in scripture.

From The Catholic Catechism:

115 According to an ancient tradition, one can distinguish between two senses of Scripture: the literal and the spiritual, the latter being subdivided into the allegorical, moral and anagogical senses. The profound concordance of the four senses guarantees all its richness to the living reading of Scripture in the Church.

116 The literal sense is the meaning conveyed by the words of Scripture and discovered by exegesis, following the rules of sound interpretation: "All other senses of Sacred Scripture are based on the literal."83

117 The spiritual sense. Thanks to the unity of God’s plan, not only the text of Scripture but also the realities and events about which it speaks can be signs.
  1. The allegorical sense. We can acquire a more profound understanding of events by recognizing their significance in Christ; thus the crossing of the Red Sea is a sign or type of Christ’s victory and also of Christian Baptism.84
  2. The moral sense. The events reported in Scripture ought to lead us to act justly. As St. Paul says, they were written “for our instruction”.85
  3. The anagogical sense (Greek: anagoge, “leading”). We can view realities and events in terms of their eternal significance, leading us toward our true homeland: thus the Church on earth is a sign of the heavenly Jerusalem.86
    118 A medieval couplet summarizes the significance of the four senses:
The Letter speaks of deeds; Allegory to faith;
The Moral how to act; Anagogy our destiny.87
119 "It is the task of exegetes to work, according to these rules, towards a better understanding and explanation of the meaning of Sacred Scripture in order that their research may help the Church to form a firmer judgement. For, of course, all that has been said about the manner of interpreting Scripture is ultimately subject to the judgement of the Church which exercises the divinely conferred commission and ministry of watching over and interpreting the Word of God."88

So to properly understand the many different layers of scripture one must have an apostolic context of tradition to draw on.

If one tries to apply a literal-only view of scripture then in many books of the bible one will quickly encounter contradictions with other books of the bible that a literal view can never answer. I can give you examples if you like.

Hope this helps,
James
Thank you, no offense to the other posters but I was just looking for an answer that I understood, but are you saying that adam was not real or eve?
 
Thank you, no offense to the other posters but I was just looking for an answer that I understood, but are you saying that adam was not real or eve?
From HUMANI GENERIS by Pope Pius XII.
  1. When, however, there is question of another conjectural opinion, namely polygenism, the children of the Church by no means enjoy such liberty. For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains either that after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parent of all or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents. Now it is in no way apparent how such an opinion can be reconciled with that which the sources of revealed truth and the documents of the Teaching Authority of the Church propose with regard to original sin, which proceeds from a sin actually committed by an individual Adam and which through generation is passed on to all and is in everyone as his own.
 
Thank you, no offense to the other posters but I was just looking for an answer that I understood, but are you saying that adam was not real or eve?
The story of the creation and fall of man is a true one, even if not written entirely according to modern literary techniques. The Catechism states, “The account of the fall in Genesis 3 uses figurative language, but affirms a primeval event, a deed that took place at the beginning of the history of man. Revelation gives us the certainty of faith that the whole of human history is marked by the original fault freely committed by our first parents” (CCC 390).

James
 
One can only break the literal meaning when there is a reason to do so.
 
I believe that Genesis is literal. I don’t know how much clearer that God could be. 1 day equals 1 day
 
I believe that Genesis is literal. I don’t know how much clearer that God could be. 1 day equals 1 day
The Church has never said that allegory lacks factual truth. 1 day does equal 1 day. That’s fact. The eart is flat and has a dome over it, that’s alegory.

“And God said”, the universe was created through the Eternal Word of God who later becomes incarnate. That’s a fact stated in allegorical language
“On day (number) God created” God created is fact. The day is allegory. The days represent the process. The inspired authors pointing to the proces of salvation history, not to a scientific process.

There are other facts that support this, such as the difference between the age of the Earth and the time when Genesis was written, the discoveries made by paleontology. The Church cannot stand by and pretend these are not real discoveries.

The Church is asking us to do something that in education and psychology is called “Backward Design”. We begin by believing what the Church is and what the Church believes. Once we understand the Church, we read the scripture and understand its truth, because it represents the Church.

Fraternally,

JR 🙂
 
“On day (number) God created” God created is fact. The day is allegory. The days represent the process. The inspired authors pointing to the proces of salvation history, not to a scientific process.
Why would we need a scientific process to determine anything done by God anyway??? The Bible explains creation in detail, what isn’t mentioned is not for us to determine. I don’t need a scientific process to tell what and what isn’t literal. How much more literal can God’s word be than the Bible. It can’t get any clearer. God is above science.
 
Why would we need a scientific process to determine anything done by God anyway??? The Bible explains creation in detail, what isn’t mentioned is not for us to determine. I don’t need a scientific process to tell what and what isn’t literal. How much more literal can God’s word be than the Bible. It can’t get any clearer. God is above science.
Tobinatorstark, the bible is both literal and spiritual. One must read it with both senses to get the whole message.

We can’t second guess why God does things in the manner he does. We could just as easily ask why did God have to die on the cross? Why couldn’t he just wave his hands and say “you are all saved - beam em up Gabriel”. Why didn’t God carve all his words out in very concise and simple terms on the side of a mountain or write it in the sky?

How much more literal can God’s word be than the bible? Well, glad you asked, the literalness of God is seen in the font of sacrifice on the cross in the person of Jesus - the suffering and obedient servant - the Living Word of God.

This is why Catholics have a Jesus centric vision rather than a bible-centric vision. To get the real sense of God’s Word - focus on the man Jesus.

James
 
**Why would we need a scientific process to determine anything done by God anyway??? **The Bible explains creation in detail, what isn’t mentioned is not for us to determine. I don’t need a scientific process to tell what and what isn’t literal. How much more literal can God’s word be than the Bible. It can’t get any clearer. God is above science.
The bold is mine.

The tradition of the Church, since the time of John the Evangelist, has been to integrate human reason with reveled truth. During the Church’s history, the Church has always placed a great deal of significance in the study of science, math, astronomy, history, art as ways of understanding revelation. This is why monastic communities were so important to the history of the Church and of the world. Had it not been for monasteries, we would not have science today. Had it not been for the Dominicans and Fanciscans, we would not have universities today. Had it not been for the Secular Franciscans, we would not be sitting in the United States.

Catholic Tradition has always relied heavily on science and faith working together. Science explains the how and the faith explains the why.

It is equally wrong for scientists to want to separate the how from the why as it is for Catholics to separate the why from the how.

If we read John’s Prologue, the writer (who was not John) added the prologue to this gospel to show us HOW the Word of God became incarnate. John had always explained the why in his Gospel. He used the language of pagan Greek philosphy to do so. The belief of the Church came first. John wrote about it in the Gospel. Then came the rational and metaphysical explanation which one of John’s disciples added to the Gospel in the form of a prologue.

In answer to your question, why do you need this?

The answer is, because you’re a Catholic. This is part of the way Catholics have done it for 2000 years. We have always laid out the foundations of faith as proclaimed by the Church, then we have scrutinized the scriptures to show the roots of our faith. Finally, we have used human sciences and disciplines to show that our thinking is rational.

This is why Pope Benedict XVI has reintroduced the expression “Reason and Faith are inseparable.” As a scholar, he realizes that Catholics cannot live with simple readings of the scriptures. We need to understand all of the pieces. This is not new to Benedict XVI. He is simply restating what others said over the past 2000 years.

Just think what the world would be like without Pope Julius and Pope Gregory. Had they not been scientists we would not have an accurate calendar.

I hope this helps.

Fraternally,

JR 🙂
 
Ok, I was just on another thread about evolution and I came upon a statement that it is an incorrect belief to believe in the literal six day creation of earth. Number one says who?
Say most scholars who are sensitive to ancient literary genres (not to mention historical and scientific issues) and do not have a dogmatic commitment to a literal view.
Number two why?
Because a six-day creation account can only be reconciled with the historical and scientific evidence through immense contortions, and because the genre of Gen. 1 does not look like anything we would now call history or science. I would turn the question round on you: why do you think it must be literal?
Number three, if the bible is the inspired word of God then how can genesis be taken as anything other than literal?
Why do you think God can only inspire literal historical narrative or scientific exposition? Especially given that some parts of Scripture (Jesus’ parables, the many passages of poetry in the OT, and apocalyptic visionary literature, such as Revelation and the later chapters of Daniel) are clearly non-literal in nature. It seems to me that it is the imposition of this odd restriction on God that needs to be defended.

Edwin
 
I believe that Genesis is literal. I don’t know how much clearer that God could be. 1 day equals 1 day
No. In Genesis 1:5 “day” (yom) is used for only part of a 24 hour day, the light part as opposed to the dark part “night”.

“For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.” Psalm 90:4

rossum
 
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