Is God a good parent?

[laocmo]

Good parents, who love their children, would hardly let them grow up continually fighting one another, much less so, horribly torturing, maiming, and killing each other. So how do we excuse God for doing that? He, who is supposed to love all his children, has let them do exactly that for thousands of years? Do you realize that today’s child welfare organizations would take them away from him for allowing that? Don’t excuse him by his not wanting to interfere with the child’s free will. A good parent would intercede in a heartbeat if the bad exercise of a child’s free will was harming others.

 

[Wesrock]

God’s Fatherhood and human fatherhood are not univocal. They are analogous. God is also not a human, and the teleological ends that determine what is good and what is evil for us to do is based on our nature. But God’s nature is not the same.

We have spurned God, but God did not wait for us to make an apology first. He reached out many, many times to us, making the first move, guiding us, and calling us back to him, despite our adulterous ways. He became flesh for us, and suffered with and for us, so that we might have a model for our covenant with him.

 

[davidv]

Good parents, who love their children, would hardly let them grow up continually fighting one another, much less so, horribly torturing, maiming, and killing each other. So how do we excuse God for doing that?
Why does God need an excuse for your bad behavior. Stop fighting, torturing, maiming and killing.

He, who is supposed to love all his children, has let them do exactly that for thousands of years? Do you realize that today’s child welfare organizations would take them away from him for allowing that? Don’t excuse him by his not wanting to interfere with the child’s free will. A good parent would intercede in a heartbeat if the bad exercise of a child’s free will was harming others.

 

[laocmo]

God’s Fatherhood and human fatherhood are not univocal. They are analogous. God is also not a human, and the teleological ends that determine what is good and what is evil for us to do is based on our nature. But God’s nature is not the same.

Then why do we keep referring to him as our Father in Heaven. Even Jesus seems to be confused on this issue. And as far as Mary being our Mother. She being in another realm where Motherhood is not the same as on Earth I suppose. All of the non theologian Catholics I know think of God, Mary, etc. as loving parents like human parents. They would be completely turned off by that unknowable, mysterious, nonhuman God that the theologians make him out to be.

 

[pianistclare]

So you think that when our parents go to heaven they change? They cease being our parents?

God created us. That’s the ultimate in Fatherhood.

 

[Bahman]

God’s Fatherhood and human fatherhood are not univocal. They are analogous. God is also not a human, and the teleological ends that determine what is good and what is evil for us to do is based on our nature. But God’s nature is not the same.

What is his true nature?, we know, he is impassible.

We have spurned God, but God did not wait for us to make an apology first. He reached out many, many times to us, making the first move, guiding us, and calling us back to him, despite our adulterous ways. He became flesh for us, and suffered with and for us, so that we might have a model for our covenant with him.

He apparently intervened but his intervention was not enough.

 

[Rbaker]

Good parents, who love their children, would hardly let them grow up continually fighting one another, much less so, horribly torturing, maiming, and killing each other. So how do we excuse God for doing that? He, who is supposed to love all his children, has let them do exactly that for thousands of years? Do you realize that today’s child welfare organizations would take them away from him for allowing that? Don’t excuse him by his not wanting to interfere with the child’s free will. A good parent would intercede in a heartbeat if the bad exercise of a child’s free will was harming others.

I think you are making this a one sided argument. Think of all the good God has given us. Food, shelter, clothing, our parents. The list of good greatly outweighs your supposed list of bad. And the part where you say don’t excuse Him for not interfering is ridiculous. Our parents can’t MAKE us do anything. As far as I know, there aren’t many children out there killing people. Most of them are old enough to understand right or wrong and their parents couldn’t stop them. You honestly think that if an 18 year old person killed someone, their parent could get them to stop?

 

[JurisPrudens]

Good parents, who love their children, would hardly let them grow up continually fighting one another, much less so, horribly torturing, maiming, and killing each other. So how do we excuse God for doing that? He, who is supposed to love all his children, has let them do exactly that for thousands of years? Do you realize that today’s child welfare organizations would take them away from him for allowing that? Don’t excuse him by his not wanting to interfere with the child’s free will. A good parent would intercede in a heartbeat if the bad exercise of a child’s free will was harming others.

God is the creator of human race, He is not, strictly speaking, the Father of us all. He is the Father of Jesus. And He is the Father by adoption to the true Christians, who live their life in the way of Jesus.

 

[laocmo]

I do not credit God with giving us food, shelter, clothing, etc. Everything given to me as a child was given by a caring parent who worked long and hard to do so. Where is all the good God has given to the starving people in Ethiopia? More of his neglected children. Throughout history humans have had to work or steal for all they acquired. You are very naive to think all you have is a gift from God like you were something special. Are not the starving children in the world as special as you? A lot of vague assumptions about how nice God is to you will never explain why he lets his children fight, kill, and suffer. something a good parent would never do. You say the list of good he gives us greatly outweighs my supposed list of bad. Can’t buy that in any way.

 

[oldcelt]

I do not credit God with giving us food, shelter, clothing, etc. Everything given to me as a child was given by a caring parent who worked long and hard to do so. Where is all the good God has given to the starving people in Ethiopia? More of his neglected children. Throughout history humans have had to work or steal for all they acquired. You are very naive to think all you have is a gift from God like you were something special. Are not the starving children in the world as special as you? A lot of vague assumptions about how nice God is to you will never explain why he lets his children fight, kill, and suffer. something a good parent would never do. You say the list of good he gives us greatly outweighs my supposed list of bad. Can’t buy that in any way.

Your statement is much of what led me to Deism. The observable world does not support the notion of a loving, involved deity…a Theistic God. It does. IMHO, support the idea of a creative force that is beyond our understanding in almost all ways…a deity that initiated creation, and let it follow its own course.
That is what observation and reason shows me…obviously, take it for what it’s worth.

Be well,

John

 

[Confiteor_Deo]

A good parent instructs his children on what is right and punishes his children when they do wrong. God teaches us what is right and He punishes us when we do wrong. He tries to keep us from sinning by giving us grace to turn from our ways, but we don’t always listen. This happens all the time with parents and rebellious children. The parents could be the best parents in the world, but the child can still be rebellious and thwart all of the parents’ attempts to correct his behavior.

 

[MPat]

Then why do we keep referring to him as our Father in Heaven. Even Jesus seems to be confused on this issue. And as far as Mary being our Mother. She being in another realm where Motherhood is not the same as on Earth I suppose. All of the non theologian Catholics I know think of God, Mary, etc. as loving parents like human parents. They would be completely turned off by that unknowable, mysterious, nonhuman God that the theologians make him out to be.

Read this part again:

God’s Fatherhood and human fatherhood are not univocal. They are analogous.

Let’s take one more analogy. We call both multiplication of natural numbers and multiplication of matrices “multiplication”, both addition of natural numbers and addition of vectors “addition”, and there are reasons to do so. But there are also differences. For example, multiplication of natural numbers is associative, while matrix multiplication is not.

So, in effect, you might as well be demanding: “Then why do we keep referring to this matrix operation as multiplication.”.

I do not credit God with giving us food, shelter, clothing, etc. Everything given to me as a child was given by a caring parent who worked long and hard to do so. Where is all the good God has given to the starving people in Ethiopia?

In fact, your third sentence here is an answer to the first two, and not something that supports them.

For just think about it: is the problem that those parents in Ethiopia do not love their children? No, the problem is that they have no food, shelter or clothing to give. Thus, while the parents get the credit for giving all that to their children, there is much more credit to be given out. The ones who grow the food, build the shelter, make the clothing - they also should get the credit. Then the ones who make that food, shelter and clothing available to the parents (shopkeepers and real estate agents, truck drivers and advertisers) should also get the credit. Then we should also give credit to the politicians and bankers, policemen and managers, who keep the economic system (that allows all that) in existence. And then we also have to give credit to God, who keeps the whole Universe (that includes that food, shelter, clothing, raw materials, workers etc.) in existence. And who has created it. And who gives His grace to the fallen humans, so that they could actually work together to achieve those results - at least a little.

So, as you can see, it is not right to give all the credit to the parents alone.

 

[Rbaker]

I do not credit God with giving us food, shelter, clothing, etc. Everything given to me as a child was given by a caring parent who worked long and hard to do so. Where is all the good God has given to the starving people in Ethiopia? More of his neglected children. Throughout history humans have had to work or steal for all they acquired. You are very naive to think all you have is a gift from God like you were something special. Are not the starving children in the world as special as you? A lot of vague assumptions about how nice God is to you will never explain why he lets his children fight, kill, and suffer. something a good parent would never do. You say the list of good he gives us greatly outweighs my supposed list of bad. Can’t buy that in any way.

Just because those in Ethiopia are poor, doesn’t mean they are neglected. It is a part of original sin that we fight kill and suffer.

Also, your Ethiopia example clearly doesn’t bother them too much as over 50% of their population consists of Christians. Their poorness might actually be a blessing for them, as it may bring them closer to God. I’d much rather suffer in this world than suffer in the next, and it may be how this works out for those in poverty.

If you truly have a problem with this, why don’t you actually do something about it? Maybe God allows the for some people to be poor to bring out a greater good? Instead of starting a bunch of debate on a computer from our couches, we could actually be doing some good instead.
Also, Why attack me personally if you are catholic (which I highly doubt you are) ?

 

[laocmo]

Just because those in Ethiopia are poor, doesn’t mean they are neglected. Also, your Ethiopia example clearly doesn’t bother them too much… Their poorness might actually be a blessing for them, as it may bring them closer to God. If you truly have a problem with this, why don’t you actually do something about it? Maybe God allows for some people to be poor to bring out a greater good? Also, Why attack me personally if you are catholic (which I highly doubt you are) ?

If they are not neglected I don’t know what you might call their condition. They have nothing. To call their poorness a blessing is the worse form of rationalization. And as to “why don’t you actually do something about it?” My St. Vincent De Paul group packs and ships things to ease their plight every year. I don’t think the good we do in any way cancels the terrible wrong that has been imposed on them. They have simply been terribly neglected by their so called loving father. And I do not attack you, just your naive ideas. And yes I’m a Catholic, 12 years grade and high school, 4 years at a Catholic university. But, I’m a Catholic that can no longer accept the nonsense that we have been told to believe all our life.

 

[Aloysium]

Perhaps one of the people who passed by his neighbour before the Good Samaritan had the same thought. “Terrible, just terrible what God permits,” Is He permitting you to do nothing? So what would you have Him do to get you going? You see someone you can help, help him. As a community, like you see with your St Vincent de Paul Society, much more can be done. As a nation even more. Get active. If not you, who? This is what we are called to do, to love one another. That is the entire purpose of our being here. To love. Count your blessings and thank God for all you have. If and when, as it surely ultimately will, all is lost you have Him and the Light and Joy that springs eternal with all creation reflecting the glory of God. Maybe this is a dark night of the soul; maybe like Mother Teresa, it is a period of darkness when God is bidding His face from you. If it is you who are turning away, I would fix that. Without His grace, you may find it increasingly difficult to love your neighbour. And, where will you be then? You will end up the uncaring one. I am addressing a fictional person, imagined from my reading of the OP. No one need to take offence. I don’t know you.

 

[Solmyr]

Perhaps one of the people who passed by his neighbour before the Good Samaritan had the same thought. “Terrible, just terrible what God permits,” Is He permitting you to do nothing? So what would you have Him do to get you going? You see someone you can help, help him. As a community, much more can be done. As a nation even more. Get active. If not you, who?

You are headed in the right direction, but stopped way too soon. Sure, we must do what we can. But it is not enough. We cannot provide the rain in drought-stricken area. We cannot reach the trapped miners to rescue them. We do not have the information to develop the necessary drugs to cure diseases. Maybe we could do more… but at least we do something.

What does God do? Nothing! The principle is: “let everyone do whatever his capabilities allow”. God has “infinite” capabilities, and yet… does NOTHING. I am sure one of the resident simpletons will be itching to “argue”: “So you want utopia? You want everything presented to you on a silver platter?”… or something equally inane. Like people in despair are more likely to turn to God, so let’s spread misery to “help” them. The slogan is: “The beatings will continue, until the morale improves!”.

The father-son analogy is nice to point out the problems. But it can be presented in a simpler, more neutral fashion: “The creator is always responsible to create as good an environment for its creation as he possible can.” And, of course God could have created every one of us directly into heaven. And none of this would be an issue.

 

[Eric_Hyom]

A lot of vague assumptions about how nice God is to you will never explain why he lets his children fight, kill, and suffer. something a good parent would never do.

A good parent may have some influence over a child until they are about ten years old, when the child gets to forty; the good parent is virtually powerless to influence a bad child.

Where is all the good God has given to the starving people in Ethiopia?

God has sent you me and everyone else to be a part of the solution, but we choose to ignore God. There are about two thousand passages in the bible that refer to justice for the poor, oppressed widow and orphans. Mankind chooses greed, we ignore God.

 

[MPat]

What does God do? Nothing! The principle is: “let everyone do whatever his capabilities allow”. God has “infinite” capabilities, and yet… does NOTHING.

Really? Can you actually prove it…? After all, that is quite a claim.

The father-son analogy is nice to point out the problems. But it can be presented in a simpler, more neutral fashion: “The creator is always responsible to create as good an environment for its creation as he possible can.”

Really? Let’s look at the example - the post you have just created. What have you done to create a good environment for it?

For example, under your position, are we supposed to scold you for being an irresponsible creator whenever you leave a grammatical mistake in your post?

And, of course God could have created every one of us directly into heaven. And none of this would be an issue.

And if Microsoft would have written a “Hello World” program instead of “Windows”, it would have had no bugs. But then, it wouldn’t be much of an operating system, would it?

As you can see, the goals of the creator are relevant. You seem to ignore them.

 

[Solmyr]

Really? Let’s look at the example - the post you have just created. What have you done to create a good environment for it?

Sorry. My mistake. I keep on making this same mistake over and over again, namely that I presume a minimum of rationality on the side of the readers. And I am being proven wrong all the time. A post does not “care” about its environment. Not even a living tree would care. Only a being with a nervous system and the knowledge to evaluate its circumstances can care. Savvy?

 

[MPat]

Sorry. My mistake. I keep on making this same mistake over and over again, namely that I presume a minimum of rationality on the side of the readers. And I am being proven wrong all the time. A post does not “care” about its environment. Not even a living tree would care. Only a being with a nervous system and the knowledge to evaluate its circumstances can care. Savvy?

So, no willingness to invent some duties towards your own creations for yourself…?

Of course, given that none of us is able to create animals, your

“The creator is always responsible to create as good an environment for its creation as he possible can.”

might as well have “God” instead of “The creator”. And that means that now you cannot claim it to be derived from something you know about our duties. So, can you prove this your claim is true?

And I guess you are not going to prove that God does nothing, and that you are conceding the point about goals of creator, since you didn’t address those points…?