Is God really in control?

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My Protestant friends always like to say “God is always in control.” I am sure we all would like to believe it.

However I find it hard to believe. If God was in control, why do so many bad things happen? War, death of children, cheating spouses, immorality, etc.

Realizing that God gave us a free will to do right or wrong, how does that mean God is in control? Seems like God controls the creation of life and then death, but everywhere in between we humans are in control and God lets the free will take control.
 
My Protestant friends always like to say “God is always in control.” I am sure we all would like to believe it.

However I find it hard to believe. If God was in control, why do so many bad things happen? War, death of children, cheating spouses, immorality, etc.

Realizing that God gave us a free will to do right or wrong, how does that mean God is in control? Seems like God controls the creation of life and then death, but everywhere in between we humans are in control and God lets the free will take control.
The beauty of how God controls is in the fact that he does allow freedom of choice. The LORD works with people’s mistakes and wrong choices as well as with holy people. Nebuchadnezzar (war and destruction), Philistines, and Rahab and Tamar (Rahab and Tamar link Jesus to David) are but a few examples of how God takes the bad repercussions of people’s choices and uses them for good.

God bless,
Valhk
 
The beauty of how God controls is in the fact that he does allow freedom of choice. The LORD works with people’s mistakes and wrong choices as well as with holy people. Nebuchadnezzar (war and destruction), Philistines, and Rahab and Tamar (Rahab and Tamar link Jesus to David) are but a few examples of how God takes the bad repercussions of people’s choices and uses them for good.

God bless,
Valhk
So when a relative’s cheating spouse tries to turn his children against their mother, I hope God does not wait too long to turn that behavior into good. It’s exacting a severe toll on the family.
 
This age old question really has a pretty simple answer. Fr. Barron explains it in his YouTube video titled “Fr. Robert Barron comments on God, Tsunamis, and the Problem of Evil.” I do not know if this link will work, but I might as well try. wordonfire.org/WOF-TV/Commentaries-New/Fr–Barron-comments-on-God,-the-Tsunami,-and-the-P.aspx
Thanks, he makes a lot of sense and it is a very compelling explanation. Seems to shoot down the whole notion that God is in control as it appears to say God is not controlling at all.
 
However I find it hard to believe. If God was in control, why do so many bad things happen?
The bible repeatedly says that Satan is in control of the world.

1 Peter 5:8
“Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.”

2 Corinthians 11:3
"But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ." (!)

2 Corinthians 11:14
And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.

The list goes on. And on.

2 Corinthians 2:1
“So that we would not be outwitted by Satan; for we are not ignorant of his designs.”
 
God is patient, merciful and compassionate. He always hopes that the sinner will turn and convert.
God’s punishing arm is lifted to fall down on mankind any time. Our Blessed Mother still prevents this interceding as our mother.
Some day God has to purify the earth to stop the last few good people from getting destroyed.
With the remaining rest God will beginn again,
It has always been this way through all the history.
Pietro2
 
My Protestant friends always like to say “God is always in control.” I am sure we all would like to believe it.

However I find it hard to believe. If God was in control, why do so many bad things happen? War, death of children, cheating spouses, immorality, etc.

Realizing that God gave us a free will to do right or wrong, how does that mean God is in control? Seems like God controls the creation of life and then death, but everywhere in between we humans are in control and God lets the free will take control.
Nothing *at all *happens without God either directly willing it or permitting it. Not even one hair falls off from your head without God being in total control of this. God bless you.
 
Nothing *at all *happens without God either directly willing it or permitting it. Not even one hair falls off from your head without God being in total control of this. God bless you.
That’s a disturbing philosophy – and one of the main arguments I hear from atheists – or more anti-theists I suppose – about why they don’t believe in a benevolent, all-powerful God.

If nothing at all happens without God willing or permitting it, God is willing or permitting children to starve to death, women to be raped, abortions to be legal, etc.

It seems either God is in control of everything and everything is part of his plan – including all things evil – or else god is not actually in control of everything.

Is there a third option here?
 
It seems either God is in control of everything and everything is part of his plan – including all things evil – or else god is not actually in control of everything.

Is there a third option here?
The first option is the 100% correct one. God permits evil so that he can draw from it a greater good. God would not permit an evil if a greater good could not be drawn from it. God does not will the malice or sin involved when a person sins against us, but he does will that we suffer the evil effects of that person’s evil sin: the deprivation, the loss of property, loss of reputation, loss of health, etc., all because he desires a greater good to come about (e.g. our conversion, our salvation, our spiritual growth, some change in our lives, etc.) God bless you.
 
The first option is the 100% correct one. God permits evil so that he can draw from it a greater good. God would not permit an evil if a greater good could not be drawn from it. God does not will the malice or sin involved when a person sins against us, but he does will that we suffer the evil effects of that person’s evil sin: the deprivation, the loss of property, loss of reputation, loss of health, etc., all because he desires a greater good to come about (e.g. our conversion, our salvation, our spiritual growth, some change in our lives, etc.) God bless you.
But God is all powerful – so he has the power to achieve those same greater goods through equally good means.

So why does he choose the method that allows evil and suffering to exist when it doesn’t have to?
 
But God is all powerful – so he has the power to achieve those same greater goods through equally good means.

So why does he choose the method that allows evil and suffering to exist when it doesn’t have to?
Yes, God indeed is all-powerful, but He is also all-wise: and He knows just what we need to be freed from our sins and vices – He knows that just what we need is suffering and trials (temporal/ physical evils). Mind you, temporal/physical evils are not really evils, only a moral evil is truly an evil, and sin is the moral evil I speak of. Our temporal/physical sufferings and trials can bring about great good in us, and God has chosen the best way to have his designs fulfilled in us. Evil and suffering on this earth must exist, otherwise it would NOT exist, God just would not allow it to. It is through the evil of suffering that we become made perfect, that is, when our suffering is patiently endured for God. When we suffer patiently for God we are able to imitate Jesus Christ and can be with Him one day in heaven. When we suffer evil, when we suffer it patiently and lovingly, so much good comes about, good that could not come about any other way. Let me put it this way, if there were no evil and suffering, we would not be able to prove our love and faithfulness to God. It is trials and sufferings ( temporal/physical evils) patiently and lovingly born for God that shows God who we truly are before Him. If life involved no trials, no “evils”, no sufferings, how would we be able to prove we love God and are faithful to Him? We prove our love to God when despite extreme suffering and evil coming against us we behave as faithful loving children. When all is well and good in our life it is easy to believe we love God and have faith, but when a major evil calamity comes our way, some major trial, how easy it is for us to abandon ship and behave like a true enemy of the Cross, and a true enemy of Christ, a non-follower. The way of the Cross is our way to heaven and salvation. It was the way Christ chose for Himself – it is the best way, otherwise Christ would have chosen a better way for Himself and for us. Without the Cross in this life we can have no glory in the next, just as Christ first had to suffer in this world before He could enter into His glory in heaven. Without temporal/physical evils in this life we wouldn’t be able to be tested and proved to be faithful children of God. This life is a place of trial and probation, a place of work and hard toil, war and suffering; in the next life we shall have perfect bliss with no evil, if we only pass our test and probation while here on earth, with patience and love in our hearts. Let us never lose the charity in our hearts and become bitter, angry and hateful because we must suffer evils in this life; let us recognize suffering for what it truly is – not a curse, but a blessing given us by God Almighty to make us perfect and able to enter heaven. God bless you.
 
Evil and suffering on this earth must exist, otherwise it would NOT exist, God just would not allow it to. It is through the evil of suffering that we become made perfect, that is, when our suffering is patiently endured for God. .
OK, so how does that view of things fit in with the Garden of Eden story then? Adam and Eve hadn’t fallen yet, so they didn’t need to be made perfect. They were already perfect – exactly as God designed them.

Why did God allow evil to enter the Garden of Eden and set off the giant chain of events that caused us to need suffering and evil as a purification tool? If he is in control of everything, why didn’t he stop the snake before it got to Eve in the first place?

I realize that’s a very literal interpretation of Genesis, but my point is, if God is in control of everything, then God built the entire system. He could just as easily have built a system where evil and suffering DIDN’T need to exist. To say that evil and suffering are here because they need to be here – even though God doesn’t like them – to me, implies that God is limited by some other set of pre-existing rules that he couldn’t get around any other way.

As a Christian, this has always been my biggest theological struggle. Either God is not completely omnipotent and is not the creator of everything, or – at some point – he CHOSE to inflict evil on the world. Because in a world with an omnipotent creator, nothing can exist that the omnipotent creator didn’t will into being.

And if evil is then a creation of God – albeit to serve some higher purpose – and all of God’s creation is good, then it follows that evil must also be good. And then your head explodes 😛
 
Thanks, he makes a lot of sense and it is a very compelling explanation. Seems to shoot down the whole notion that God is in control as it appears to say God is not controlling at all.
God has given us free will, God desires us but does not force us to chose good. I do not think you understand Fr. Barron’s video. God can bring good from man’s evil but God did NOT create evil. Evil is a lack of good. God is good God is Being Itself therefore he can not create evil. Man let evil into the world. Yes, God gave us free will but he gave it so that we can love.

God Bless
 
OK, so how does that view of things fit in with the Garden of Eden story then? Adam and Eve hadn’t fallen yet, so they didn’t need to be made perfect. They were already perfect – exactly as God designed them.

Why did God allow evil to enter the Garden of Eden and set off the giant chain of events that caused us to need suffering and evil as a purification tool? If he is in control of everything, why didn’t he stop the snake before it got to Eve in the first place?

I realize that’s a very literal interpretation of Genesis, but my point is, if God is in control of everything, then God built the entire system. He could just as easily have built a system where evil and suffering DIDN’T need to exist. To say that evil and suffering are here because they need to be here – even though God doesn’t like them – to me, implies that God is limited by some other set of pre-existing rules that he couldn’t get around any other way.

As a Christian, this has always been my biggest theological struggle. Either God is not completely omnipotent and is not the creator of everything, or – at some point – he CHOSE to inflict evil on the world. Because in a world with an omnipotent creator, nothing can exist that the omnipotent creator didn’t will into being.

And if evil is then a creation of God – albeit to serve some higher purpose – and all of God’s creation is good, then it follows that evil must also be good. And then your head explodes 😛
The only evil that is truly evil is moral evil, sin. The other “evils” all can actually make us perfect and worthy of heaven – very good things, no? Yes, Adam and Eve were perfect, but they abused the free will God gave them and disobeyed Him. As a result of their fall from grace, sin and death entered into the world. Even for Adam and Eve, there were rules given to them by God … actually there was only one rule, and it was that they must never eat from the Tree of Good and Evil. They were being tested while on earth, like we are, even though they were perfect (even the Angles who were made perfect had to be tested with a trial, and 1/3 of them failed and fell into hell.) God permitted Adam and Eve to be tested with a trial so that they could gain merit and prove their faithfulness, He permitted Satan to tempt them because He wanted Adam and Eve to prove themselves as obedient children, but they only proved that they were proud and disobedient children. This place is a place of merit through suffering; heaven is a place of reward, we must suffer evil in this life so we can **merit to be in heaven. You see, God gives us free will so we can choose good over evil, so we can choose Him over evil, the devil, sin, eternal death, etc… He knows that for us to love Him requires free will on our part, it requires that we choose Him, the greatest good, over evil. If he did not give us free will with the risks involved and with the devil and evil to tempt us, then we’d be like sterile robots who could not choose anything – we could not choose to love Him or could not choose **to be faithful to Him or choose good over evil and thus could not MERIT heaven. Choosing to love our good God *]is a much nobler thing *than loving Him merely because we are forced to or are programmed to. Don’t you see why it is best that we have free will and all the risks involved and why it is necessary that we have the devil and evil to try us – it all gives us the ability to merit heaven, which is just what God wants – remember, this is a place of probation, of merit through suffering, heaven is a place of reward. This is why God permits the devil and evil in the world to tempt us … it is not so that they may destroy us, but that they may make us into happy heirs of the heavenly Kingdom for all eternity. God bless you.
 
Yes, Adam and Eve were perfect, but they abused the free will God gave them and disobeyed Him. As a result of their fall from grace, sin and death entered into the world.
But why would perfect people act in an imperfect way? If they were perfect, and if there were no evil or sin yet in the world to tempt them, how could they have made the wrong choice re: the apple? (Same question re: the angels)

And you say “sin and death entered into the world.” But where did they COME from? If God created EVERYTHING, then he must have created sin and death too, no? Otherwise, who did?
 
But why would perfect people act in an imperfect way? If they were perfect, and if there were no evil or sin yet in the world to tempt them, how could they have made the wrong choice re: the apple? (Same question re: the angels)
Adam and Eve were made perfect, but they gave into temptation (temptation existed in the Garden of Eden); as a result they became fallen and imperfect. All of the angels were made perfect, but some of them gave into the temptations of pride and disobedience, and became fallen. One of these angels, Satan, was in the Garden of Eden in the form of a snake and tempted Adam and Eve, and Adam and Eve gave in and mortally sinned.
And you say “sin and death entered into the world.” But where did they COME from? If God created EVERYTHING, then he must have created sin and death too, no? Otherwise, who did?
I know that evil is the absence of good, and not something positive in itself. Sin is the absence of virtue and death is the absence of life. It is my understanding that these evils are not positive things created, but rather the absence of the good that God had created. God bless you.
 
Adam and Eve were made perfect, but they gave into temptation (temptation existed in the Garden of Eden); as a result they became fallen and imperfect. All of the angels were made perfect, but some of them gave into the temptations of pride and disobedience, and became fallen. One of these angels, Satan, was in the Garden of Eden in the form of a snake and tempted Adam and Eve, and Adam and Eve gave in and mortally sinned.
So then why did God create temptation? (Sorry to be playing the part of a 4-year-old here with the “why? why? why?” game, but I’m just curious where it’ll get us in the end.)
I know that evil is the absence of good, and not something positive in itself. Sin is the absence of virtue and death is the absence of life. It is my understanding that these evils are not positive things created, but rather the absence of the good that God had created. God bless you.
So are sin and death older than the rest of creation? If they’re the absence of creation, than they would have existed in the time before anything else existed, right? But God already existed then as well … hmmm
 
So then why did God create temptation? (Sorry to be playing the part of a 4-year-old here with the “why? why? why?” game, but I’m just curious where it’ll get us in the end.)
Not to worry, your not playing the part of a 4 year old; you just need some answers because you want to know if God is actually in control like I say He is.

In the beginning God created the heavens (the angelic world) and the earth, and God created everything good. He gave all of his angels free will. Some of them abused their free will and became devils. Mind you, God did not create any devils, he created all good angels, but the bad angels made themselves into devils by their disobedience. The bad angels were tempted to pride, they were tempted to place themselves above God. This they tried to do and as a result were hurled down to the earth, where they have been tempting men since the time of Adam and Evil. (Hell is in the core of the earth, says Ven. Mary of Agreda and theologians). The bad angels are in hell and walk the earth where the living are, trying to tempt us and destroy our happiness in God.

God permits us to be tempted by Satan and the demons only so much, and always so that we can resist and gain merit for heaven. Remember, this is a place of merit through suffering, heaven is a place of reward.

Adam and Eve were tempted to pride just as the bad angels were, but God could have mercy on them because they were not created as gifted as the angels, who could know everything they needed to know for making a decision. Because Adam and Eve with free will were created good but are not God (they [and we] can only participate in God’s goodness, essence, nature, divine life), we his creatures can get tempted to disobey His commands and fall away (because of the gift of free will God gave us. God in His wisdom deems it better that we have free will with the risk of being tempted and falling, then that we have no free will at all and can not choose to love Him over evil or can not be able to gain merit.

Why did Adam and Eve get tempted? Because though they were made good and in perfect justice, only God is the essence of goodness, we creatures can only participate in His goodness, divine life, essence, nature --Adam and Eve have a human nature (even Jesus in HIs Human Nature was tempted); the moment we start to rebel and deviate from God and His commands by choosing ourselves or some evil over the goodness of God, we endanger ourselves by the temptation. The bad angels and Adam and Eve deviated from the Lord’s Will, Adam and Eve because they were tempted to be like God knowing good and evil --they CHOSE to disobey, they abused their gift of free will. With free will we always can choose to disobey if we lose our fear of offending God and our respect for Him. When God gives any rational creature free-will, the temptation not to submit to His commands are part of the package He gives us – He does not will for us to give into temptation and fall away, but He does at least with his permissive will, will for us to be tempted, so that we can resist and gain merit – this is part of His divine plan. Because we have free will it means we can choose evil over good and have self-love. We were made to love God above all and everything, but because we are not God and have free will we can get tempted to love ourselves and other things more, and we can fall away, as a result of our not being God or loving Him/ trusting Him enough. Adam and Eve did not love or trust God enough and fell. But God wanted them to have free will so they could CHOOSE to love Him and so that they could MERIT heaven. God wanted these two things more than He wanted evil to be off the face of the earth, He knew that evil would serve to make possible these two things: the choice of Him over evil by his rational creatures and their meriting heaven by resisting evil.

So are sin and death older than the rest of creation? If they’re the absence of creation, than they would have existed in the time before anything else existed, right? But God already existed then as well … hmmm

I am late for an appointment and shall try to answer this question later. God bless you!
 
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