Is hand holding during the Our Father practiced outside the United States?

[JakeWI]

I do not hold hands, nor does my wife. It does seem like a majority of our Parish does, and if they want to, their perogative. There are some like us that I do see that don’t hold hands, and that is fine. I don’t mean it to be rude to anyone, and I don’t think anyone really thinks about us not holding hands either. It is a rather small thing that isn’t affecting my praising or respecting God in any certain way. The remainder of our Mass is relatively traditional (along with the music… with some sang in latin), so I am thankful for that as those things DO directly affect me.

 

[ProVobis]

.I just find that it detracts…haven’t we moved far enough in the Liturgy.

One of my bosses back in 1970, I believe, once made it a lunch discussion on reciting prayers in cadences. How can anyone possibly think about what they’re saying when forced to at everyone else’s speed, he kept asking. It certainly had me thinking. But I digress somewhat.

 

[rinnie]

We have done it for years. Until at a Pastoral Meeting a year ago we were told that we were not supposed to do this. We are to hold our hands in prayer. So we quit!

 

[Havard]

Considering there are absolutely no - nada, zip - rubrics for how to hold your hands, your point is irrelevant and over the top. We don’t need to get snippy about something that has been going on for 50 years or so, and over which Rome has chosen, through three generations of the GIRM, to not address.

Not so.

From vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/laity/documents/rc_con_interdic_doc_15081997_en.html :

“Neither may deacons or non-ordained members of the faithful use gestures or actions which are proper to the same priest celebrant.”

It’s not an affirmative direction, but it definitely says what NOT to do.

 

[Havard]

My pet peeve is that while a majority at my local parishes have adopted non-directed gestures, only a small minority actually perform the directed gestures such as to strike our breasts during the Confiteor, bow during the Creed, genuflect/bow before receiving the host, etc.

I see a small group of us performing these gestures week in and week out, why they don’t they catch on?

 

[Radish]

I was going to ask about this! I’m new so I’m a bit confused about what to do during mass. Some people cross themselves before they sit - some do not. Some put their hands up at different times others don’t.

I just saw the hands up thing the other day and then a family did the hand holding yesterday. I’ve not seen it so I was going to ask if it was a thing. I thought it was kind of neat.

 

[Jon_S_1]

Not so.

From vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/laity/documents/rc_con_interdic_doc_15081997_en.html :

“Neither may deacons or non-ordained members of the faithful use gestures or actions which are proper to the same priest celebrant.”

It’s not an affirmative direction, but it definitely says what NOT to do.

Not really accurate…

From the Vatican;

A different case is the practice in which some people adopt the “orantes” posture during the Our Father, praying like the priest, with hands extended.

In some countries, Italy, for example, the Holy See has granted the bishops’ request to allow anyone who wishes to adopt this posture during the Our Father. Usually about a third to one-half of the assembled faithful choose to do so.

Despite appearances, this gesture is not, strictly speaking, a case of the laity trying to usurp priestly functions.

The Our Father is the prayer of the entire assembly and not a priestly or presidential prayer. In fact, it is perhaps the only case when the rubrics direct the priest to pray with arms extended in a prayer that he does not say alone or only with other priests. Therefore, in the case of the Our Father, the orantes posture expresses the prayer directed to God by his children.

The U.S. bishops’ conference debated a proposal by some bishops to allow the use of the orantes posture while discussing the “American Adaptations to the General Instruction to the Roman Missal” last year. Some bishops even argued that it was the best way of ridding the country of holding hands. The proposal failed to garner the required two-thirds majority of votes, however, and was dropped from the agenda.

zenit.org/en/articles/holding-hands-at-the-our-father

 

[Havard]

Not really accurate…

From the Vatican;

I’m confused, what are you saying isn’t accurate?

 

[Jon_S_1]

I’m confused, what are you saying isn’t accurate?

Your document was not specifically addressing the our father and the Holy See has said that the hands up posture (in line with the priest) by the faithful is licit.

 

[Havard]

Your document was not specifically addressing the our father and the Holy See has said that the hands up posture (in line with the priest) by the faithful is licit.

Oh, I didn’t intend to. I was responding to otjm’s post, which I took to mean that there are simply no rubrics/instructions for how to hold your hands.

 

[otjm]

Not so.

From vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/laity/documents/rc_con_interdic_doc_15081997_en.html :

“Neither may deacons or non-ordained members of the faithful use gestures or actions which are proper to the same priest celebrant.”

It’s not an affirmative direction, but it definitely says what NOT to do.

You have not proved anything.

For starters, the discussion is about holding hands - and that is not a “gesture or action which is proper to the priest celebrant”. So the note does not apply.

As to another gesture, the orans position, you lose on two points; this prayer (the Our Father) is not a prayer of the priest, but of the community, and not only has Rome approved it as a prayer posture of the laity (see above in the thread) , but also the bishops of the US considered requesting permission of Rome. I know that not all the bishops were in favor of that, but I kind of think they were aware of the point you make. It would be simple to say that the motion failed because other bishops saw it is a unique gesture of the priest, but without polling all of them, that is just a wild guess. It passed for Italy, so apparently Rome does not think so. And I am more likely to follow what Rome thinks.

I am not promoting holding hands; I frankly don’t care one way of the other. I have endured it for 50 years, and it doesn’t make my socks roll up and down either way. In charity, I would not refuse to hold hands with someone else with the exception of this last Sunday - Mass was three handkerchiefs long as I have a strong cold. Nor would I ever push someone else to hold hands. It is a fact of life that some people are uncharitable - sometimes they are the people pushing someone to hold hands, and sometimes they are the people refusing to do so. For someone who has a phobia about germs, I can understand. This issue has been brought up in Catholic Answers Forum numerous times, and frankly, some of the answers have reeked of a lack of charity.

For 50 years, give or take one or two, people have been holding hands during the Our Father. and for just about as long, Rome has pointedly ignored the matter when they have had several specific opportunities to do so; and in fact, have addressed the issue in Italy contrary to those who insist that it is against the rules to do so.

Maybe all of this angst could be put to better use by doing something positive to end abortion, or to get the 80+% of those between 18 and 30 to go to Mass. Just sayin’.

 

[Havard]

Sheesh, it’s no skin off my back and I’m not invested in proving anything.

Sorry I misunderstood your post…

 

[otjm]

You seem to be making an assumption that everyone in the world has seen this practice since the 60’s. Maybe in the U.K. they have never seen it, or haven’t seen it until recently?

Thanks for the heads up on Oregon, though.

No, I am not making the assumption that it is world wide; or even spread throughout English speaking countries. Neither is dance, but it is culturally accepted in some areas; just not English speaking countries.

If you come out here, let me know - I will buy you a latte (or whatever Starbucks is selling that suits your taste). And If you come to Mass with me, for sure I won’t make you hold hands.

Our parish does hold hands ( some don’t); we also have Perpetual Adoration, and Sunday just before Mass started, we had the crowning of Mary. Haven’s seen that since the 1950’s.

 

[milliner]

I’m wondering if this is primarily an American phenomenon.

We as a family and close friends hold hands during the Our Father in our parish in the U K as a comfort to each other and a feeling of unity .I do not know if anybody. Notices as this is
not done in any way as a obvious show to others.

 

[jimkhong]

Someone mentioned kissing Good Lord, dragging the Liturgy down this is not what the Liturgical Commission intended neither did it sanction holding hands and raising them up, do these people think they are at a Non Catholic Event/A Party of sorts, we are at Mass not for ourselves but to give glory to God, its not about “Me” and I am having a good time.
Holding hands is a Liturgical Abuse, Praise the Lord they don’t do this in England/Ireland when I go to Mass, to be quite honest if someone try to grab my hand, I would grab it back while saying the Our Father. I think the Bishop should be informed so the priests can say something from the Pulpit, I mean to day its holding hands at the Our Father, to morrow its kissing instead of shaking hands giving the sign of Peace, and then who knows what nut will invent more Liturgical Abuse while trying to get the Original Version of THE MASS in the Novus Ordo.

Shudder at the thoughts of what I have just read.

Never seen cardinals giving each other the kiss of peace during papal high mass? Kiss of peace is mentioned in the Gospels, as one poster pointed out.

In my parish, holding hands is not uncommon, especially among people who know each other and family members. Usually, not among strangers.

The Church is very big and there are many different customs and cultures practiced in the church, but stemming from the same faith inside each of us. There are many practices that we think are very pious but there are others who would shudder at it. For instance, some Eastern Catholics would wonder why we kneel at mass when it is specifically prohibited by a Church Council (and not reversed since then) - to them, it would be a liturgical abuse if they take the same attitude some in the Western church do. Fortunately, most of them do not and most accept differences in practices as what it is and not be judgemental about other people’s cultures and customs.

Unless it is liturgially inappropriate (eg., does not further the worship of the community as a whole) or specifically prohibited by the local bishops (as in raising the hands in the Oremus position during the Our Father in the US, - did I understand that correctly), then we should just leave it at that - each praying in their own way and their own language but still remaining within the broader Catholic church, whether we would pray in the same way as they do or not. We have enough problems with Muslim authorities in my country trying to tell us Christiand how we should pray - not too keen on Catholic non-authorities deciding how pious I am by the way I pray.

 

[Irishgal49]

I had this issue come up yesterday. I always fold my hands and close my eyes so people don’t try to hold my hand. I was doing that and a woman in front of me actually poked me. I ignored it and then she said, “Do you want to hold hands?” and I had to open my eyes and tell her no thank you. She was holding hands with someone else and then she said, “Oh, well whatever” in a snotty voice and then we started the Lord’s Prayer. This is out of hand if you ask me. I can’t believe when someone has their hands folded and their eyes closed that someone will poke them and interrupt their prayers.

That is just plain rude.

 

[27lw]

I think a lot of this varies by pastor. I had one pastor who told us that it was good and desirable for married couples to kiss during the sign of peace. I also had a pastor who told us that the Our Father is not supposed to be like a football huddle. Out praying together is the sign of unity, and that if we hold hands there is too much emphasis on the togetherness of “us”, and not enough on the prayer to the Father.
Here in Indiana I see a lot of hand-holding during the Our Father (but not at my current church where the pastor told us not to make a “football huddle”).

 

[Georgia]

I saw the huddle happen in my parish this weekend. It was new to me.

We have chairs sitting along outside walls of our church. The aisle is pretty wide between the chairs and the pews, so there is room for anything. When we prayed the Our Father, I saw a group of people who had been in those chairs standing in a circle, holding hands, and saying the prayer.

I had no idea it was anything done elsewhere.

 

[inomcoke]

I’m from West Michigan (US) and about 90+% of people hold hands during the Our Father in all the Parishes I’ve attended. As for me and my family, we don’t. We fold our hands and pray.

The reason we don’t hold hands is because it we are not instructed to in the GIRM. In the event that this changes, so will we. I know that the GIRM does not give any instruction on proper hand positioning at this time of the Mass, but from that I can not infer that I am permitted to do anything I would like with my hands.

Hands folded is a common stance for prayer, so when nothing else is instructed, that is what I do. I specifically choose this posture because in addition to being the traditional posture of prayer (universally as far as I know) it also seems to be the most polite way of indicating to others that you are not going to be holding hands.

Just one more point I’d like to make. Many people here (on both sides) have mentioned that some people are germophobic, or introverted, or otherwise uncomfortable holding hands. To me, that is not important. I am actually more comfortable holding hands at this time, since that is how I was raised my entire life (up until about 6 months ago). What is important is following the Churches teaching to the best of my ability. When the Church does not have specific instructions, I don’t feel I can insert a posture that is not found anywhere else in the Mass (hand holding).

That being said, I think people (on both sides) are discussing this issue with a severe lack of Charity. We can disagree, and make our points, without attacking or being rude.