Is Intimacy acceptable for an older person

[lovingmylord]

My friends and I have been having a debate about the question of intimacy after becoming a widow. My two friends both lost husbands. They are up in their late 60’s. One of them receives a very healthy pension from her deceased spouse and she will be well cared for, although not wealthy, but very comfortable for the rest of her life. Both of these ladies tell me it’s okay for a widow to be intimate with a new found love and that since there is no issue of pregnancy, that at this age, it’s okay. If it is, where in scripture does it state this. I’ve checked up in the Cathechism and it’s kind of vague in this particular area. The one woman says that if she should marry her new found man, who is a lovely man, Catholic, attends Mass each week as she also does, and this man is not financially secure, although he works, but if she married him and he passed away, she would have now lost her first husband’s pension, and he wouldn’t have much to leave for her, so it would leave her pretty much without anything. This is quite a dilemma that many older people face, and for the most part, I think most of them feel it’s pretty okay, even those that are practicing Catholics. I am unsure as to the position of all this, and most of all, I’d like to know exactly where in scripture does it say that this is not acceptable. Thank you for any response to this.

 

[1ke]

Both of these ladies tell me it’s okay for a widow to be intimate with a new found love and that since there is no issue of pregnancy, that at this age, it’s okay.

If they mean before they are married to the man, then this would be fornication– a mortal sin agaisnt the Sixth Commandment.

If they mean after they marry the man, then this is an accurate statement.

If it is, where in scripture does it state this. I’ve checked up in the Cathechism and it’s kind of vague in this particular area.

It’s not vague in the least. Where are you looking?

The one woman says that if she should marry her new found man, who is a lovely man, Catholic, attends Mass each week as she also does, and this man is not financially secure, although he works, but if she married him and he passed away, she would have now lost her first husband’s pension, and he wouldn’t have much to leave for her, so it would leave her pretty much without anything.

If she isn’t willing to commit her entire self and life to someone else, then she should refrain from dating.

This is quite a dilemma that many older people face, and for the most part, I think most of them feel it’s pretty okay, even those that are practicing Catholics. I am unsure as to the position of all this, and most of all, I’d like to know exactly where in scripture does it say that this is not acceptable. Thank you for any response to this.

You are unclear on the position of the Church that sex outside of marriage is a grave sin?

 

[fieldsparrow]

I am still learning, but I think this is covered in the Catechism in section 2390:
usccb.org/catechism/text/pt3sect2chpt2art6.shtml#2390

*In a so-called free union, a man and a woman refuse to give juridical and public form to a liaison involving sexual intimacy.

The expression “free union” is fallacious: what can “union” mean when the partners make no commitment to one another, each exhibiting a lack of trust in the other, in himself, or in the future?

The expression covers a number of different situations: concubinage, rejection of marriage as such, or inability to make long-term commitments.183 All these situations offend against the dignity of marriage; they destroy the very idea of the family; they weaken the sense of fidelity. They are contrary to the moral law. The sexual act must take place exclusively within marriage. Outside of marriage it always constitutes a grave sin and excludes one from sacramental communion.*

I think this falls under the Sixth Commandment, “You shall not commit adultery.”

 

[Vico]

My friends and I have been having a debate about the question of intimacy after becoming a widow. My two friends both lost husbands. They are up in their late 60’s. One of them receives a very healthy pension from her deceased spouse and she will be well cared for, although not wealthy, but very comfortable for the rest of her life. Both of these ladies tell me it’s okay for a widow to be intimate with a new found love and that since there is no issue of pregnancy, that at this age, it’s okay. If it is, where in scripture does it state this. I’ve checked up in the Cathechism and it’s kind of vague in this particular area. The one woman says that if she should marry her new found man, who is a lovely man, Catholic, attends Mass each week as she also does, and this man is not financially secure, although he works, but if she married him and he passed away, she would have now lost her first husband’s pension, and he wouldn’t have much to leave for her, so it would leave her pretty much without anything. This is quite a dilemma that many older people face, and for the most part, I think most of them feel it’s pretty okay, even those that are practicing Catholics. I am unsure as to the position of all this, and most of all, I’d like to know exactly where in scripture does it say that this is not acceptable. Thank you for any response to this.

A widow can marry again. Scripture prohibits adultery and fornication. Some scriptures are these:

Genesis 20:9
Genesis 34:1-7, 31
Genesis 39:9
Exodus 20:14
Leviticus 18:20
Leviticus 19:29
Deuteronomy 5:18
Deuteronomy 22:22-24, etc.
Deuteronomy 23:17-18
1 Samuel 2:22-23
2 Samuel 13:12

Matthew 14:34 (Mark 6:17-18)
Matthew 5;27; 19:18;
Mark 10:19;
Luke 18:20;
Romans 13:9;
James 2:11
Romans 2:21-22
1 Corinthians 5:13
1 Corinthians 5:1-5, 9-13
1 Corinthians 6:15; 10:8
1 Corinthians 7:2
1 Corinthians 7:9, 36-37
Ephesians 4:17-20
Hebrews 12:16
Hebrews 13:4

 

[lovingmylord]

I knew I came to the right place. Actually my position is not unclear as I’ve known all these facts from the Catechism, although I’m not a great scholar, but I do know my Catechism, I thought maybe I was misunderstanding something in it, and this was just for the purpose of clarifying my understanding, and now I see that I was correct. I just thought maybe being much older in the later years, and not childbearing, but for love, warmth and companionship for older people, and for the various reasons why it would be a bad decision to marry for themselves, that maybe for these people it would not be a sin as it would be for younger unmarried people, but I see now that my original belief was correct, including this. But thanks all of you for satisfying my foggy understanding here and I will pass this on to my dear friends so that they will understand. God bless you all.

 

[HolyCow21]

2 people have mentioned that this is against the 6th commandment - “thou shall not commit adultery.” If the person is widowed, how is it adultery? Isn’t marriage “till death do we part?”

 

[Flame4]

If a widow chooses to marry again and then has sexual intmacy with her new husband, that is not a sin…
As the poster stated above me, marriage is until death, so after someone’s spouse dies they may choose to remarry. It is not adultary.
If they have sexual intimacy before marriage then it is fornification and a sin.

It is not wrong for an older person to have sexual intimacy (while in a marriage) if that’s what you mean…

Hope this helps. God Bless

 

[Vico]

2 people have mentioned that this is against the 6th commandment - “thou shall not commit adultery.” If the person is widowed, how is it adultery? Isn’t marriage “till death do we part?”

From the Compendium of the Catholic Catechism (2005):

493. Although it says only “you shall not commit adultery” why does the sixth commandment forbid all sins against chastity?

2336

Although the biblical text of the Decalogue reads “you shall not commit adultery” (Exodus 20:14), the Tradition of the Church comprehensively follows the moral teachings of the Old and New Testaments and considers the sixth commandment as encompassing all sins against chastity.

vatican.va/archive/compendium_ccc/documents/archive_2005_compendium-ccc_en.html

 

[1ke]

2 people have mentioned that this is against the 6th commandment - “thou shall not commit adultery.” If the person is widowed, how is it adultery? Isn’t marriage “till death do we part?”

The Sixth Commandment covers all sins against marriage and chastity. The formulation “thou shall not commit adultery” is simply shorthand. All sexual sins fall under the sixth commandment.

 

[larry85704]

What a sad thing, to have one’s spouse die.

It should not be so hard. Isn’t the person free from pain and with the Lord? Why then would someone who loved their spouse want them to come back?

Why can’t we focus on all the good things, like a long and happy marriage, filled with joy. Why aren’t all the wonderful memories enough?

Why isn’t there something beyond sex and marriage that people can pursue after a death that makes thier lives filled with happiness again?

I guess that if the Church is going to tell people not to play house, which is a good thing, it would be very nice if the Church would help them when they are sitting in their house crying because they are alone. Or, did they do something wrong by having a long and happy marriage that God must punish them by having a long and lonely life?

True intimacy is not sex. There is no sin in being intimate with someone as long as the relationship does not include sex. If God chooses to place the desire for sex in an older couples heart then so be it, let them marry. But let them first share the intimacy that many happily married couples know. The intimacy that comes from love, not sex.

 

[Ranklyfrank]

Don’t you love it when the laity usurps the prerogative of God and pettily quotes scripture at a dynamic of the Heart? Is not God Love? Is not all His creation Good? INCLUDING INTIMACY. Yes, you can get all tight about “fornication” if you want, but in the cases described it would be madness to get married. And it would be equal madness to starve oneself at the table God set.

I mean if there is such a pinched interpretation going on here, why not marry in secret? And there are legal ways around money, like trusts and such. The pettiness of parsing scrupulosity has cost more Love than wars. Get real!

 

[mark_a]

The one woman says that if she should marry her new found man, who is a lovely man, Catholic, attends Mass each week as she also does, and this man is not financially secure, although he works, but if she married him and he passed away, she would have now lost her first husband’s pension, and he wouldn’t have much to leave for her, so it would leave her pretty much without anything.

That’s a tough situation for sure, but I think Jesus said it best when he said “Your heart is where your treasure is.”

 

[The_Old_Medic]

There is no way in which a person of any age can be sexually intimate outside of marriage, and not be committing a sin.

I am 67 myself, and my wife is chronically ill. If she dies, I will be lonely as all get out. BUT, I can not slip into someone elses bed, without knowing that I am committing a mortal sin.

Age has absolutely nothing to do with it. Lot’s of elders get married again.

In some cases, people have had a religious marriage, but not a legal one, when great financial hardship would be involved. I doubt if the church would really approve of this, but I do know of a few cases where it was done. I even know one priest that witnessed such a marriage that is now a Bishop.

 

[puzzleannie]

My friends and I have been having a debate about the question of intimacy after becoming a widow. My two friends both lost husbands. They are up in their late 60’s. One of them receives a very healthy pension from her deceased spouse and she will be well cared for, although not wealthy, but very comfortable for the rest of her life. Both of these ladies tell me it’s okay for a widow to be intimate with a new found love and that since there is no issue of pregnancy, that at this age, it’s okay. If it is, where in scripture does it state this. I’ve checked up in the Cathechism and it’s kind of vague in this particular area. .

the CCC is not at all vague, neither are the commandments. the Intimacies of marriage are reserved for those who are validly married–to each other. Anything else is mortal sin. Period. End of sentence. There is no age limit to sexual sin. There is no age limit to the commandments. There is especially not commandment that says you can sin of it will benefit you financially. I am also wondering about the morality of discussing and speculating about the sex lives of third parties, however.

 

[lovingmylord]

2 people have mentioned that this is against the 6th commandment - “thou shall not commit adultery.” If the person is widowed, how is it adultery? Isn’t marriage “till death do we part?”

It is not adultery. That’s not what I meant. I was referring to the intimacy outside of marriage after the death of her husband with another person.

 

[lovingmylord]

the CCC is not at all vague, neither are the commandments. the Intimacies of marriage are reserved for those who are validly married–to each other. Anything else is mortal sin. Period. End of sentence. There is no age limit to sexual sin. There is no age limit to the commandments. There is especially not commandment that says you can sin of it will benefit you financially. I am also wondering about the morality of discussing and speculating about the sex lives of third parties, however.

No sir, I am not speculating on the personal lives of anyone.
These are dear friends, both widowed, neither is familiar with forums and computers and I simply offered to clarify this for them just to be absolutely sure. I’ve always been taught that there is no sex outside of marriage no matter what, Then I wondered did I misunderstand in some way because it’s been many a year since I’ve spoken with anyone who agrees with this mindset. I say you’re either a Catholic and will follow and obey the rules set down by Christ through his church or you can leave the church and join another denomination, so the choice would be theirs. I was simply doing research for them. Thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut. It’s much appreciated. I have already shared all the information I received in this forum with them. God bless.