Is it a mortal sin to sleep with my girlfriend without having instimity

[thewanderer]

ok, yeah, I know about that, but that is not the same thing as a straight up condemnation of passionate kissing. That is a condemnation of kissing for the sake of sexual pleasure/arousal.

And I should add that that is any kind of kissing that is for the sake of sexual pleasure/arousal rather than for the sake of being affectionate/showing affection.

 

[Vico]

ok, yeah, I know about that, but that is not the same thing as a straight up condemnation of passionate kissing. That is a condemnation of kissing for the sake of sexual pleasure/arousal.

I can’t say that I understand your remark in view of the original statement and Papal answer.

Certainly, passionate kissing is a sexual pleasure. It is arousing and therefore serves as foreplay, which is ordinate for a married couple intending to couple, and is inordinate for the unmarried. Catechism: 2350 Those who are engaged to marry are called to live chastity in continence. They should see in this time of testing a discovery of mutual respect, an apprenticeship in fidelity, and the hope of receiving one another from God. They should reserve for marriage the expressions of affection that belong to married love. They will help each other grow in chastity.

2350 Those who are engaged to marry are called to live chastity in continence. They should see in this time of testing a discovery of mutual respect, an apprenticeship in fidelity, and the hope of receiving one another from God. They should reserve for marriage the expressions of affection that belong to married love. They will help each other grow in chastity.

2351 Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.

The original statement:“Passioniate kissing is also gravely sinful for the unmarried: this was actually defined by a Pope, and he condemned all other views.”
Question:Would you mind providing a source for this claim?
The answer in the linked threadope Alexander VII condemned the idea that it is only a venial sin for the unmarried to kiss for the sensual pleasure arriving from the kiss even if there is no danger of further consent of going even farther.

“…condemned. What does that mean? Saint Alphonsus explains. ‘Quote

this means that every time someone with sufficient reflection and full consent of the will delights in carnal or sensual pleasure associated with to whom he is not married he commits a mortal sin. This is not only true with kisses but also with respect to other touches performed for carnal pleasure. The reason is that any delight taken in carnal pleasure, that is to say any delight taken in stirring up the appetites which surround the creative power, is a movement towards the martial act.’
​

Close Quote. The Doctor of Moral Theology of the Universal Church.”
​

 

[thewanderer]

I can’t say that I understand your remark in view of the original statement and Papal answer.

Certainly, passionate kissing is a sexual pleasure. It is arousing and therefore serves as foreplay, which is ordinate for a married couple intending to couple, and is inordinate for the unmarried. Catechism: 2350 Those who are engaged to marry are called to live chastity in continence. They should see in this time of testing a discovery of mutual respect, an apprenticeship in fidelity, and the hope of receiving one another from God. They should reserve for marriage the expressions of affection that belong to married love. They will help each other grow in chastity.

2350 Those who are engaged to marry are called to live chastity in continence. They should see in this time of testing a discovery of mutual respect, an apprenticeship in fidelity, and the hope of receiving one another from God. They should reserve for marriage the expressions of affection that belong to married love. They will help each other grow in chastity.

2351 Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.

The original statement:“Passioniate kissing is also gravely sinful for the unmarried: this was actually defined by a Pope, and he condemned all other views.”
Question:Would you mind providing a source for this claim?
The answer in the linked threadope Alexander VII condemned the idea that it is only a venial sin for the unmarried to kiss for the sensual pleasure arriving from the kiss even if there is no danger of further consent of going even farther.

“…condemned. What does that mean? Saint Alphonsus explains. ‘Quote

this means that every time someone with sufficient reflection and full consent of the will delights in carnal or sensual pleasure associated with to whom he is not married he commits a mortal sin. This is not only true with kisses but also with respect to other touches performed for carnal pleasure. The reason is that any delight taken in carnal pleasure, that is to say any delight taken in stirring up the appetites which surround the creative power, is a movement towards the martial act.’
​

Close Quote. The Doctor of Moral Theology of the Universal Church.”
​

I’m not going to get into that discussion on this thread as it is rather off-topic. I don’t see why my statement was very confusing. The pope condemned kissing for the sake of arousal and sexual pleasure. I am in agreement with him on this matter. What I take issue with is some people’s interpretation of how that plays out in certain circumstances.

 

[Vico]

I’m not going to get into that discussion on this thread as it is rather off-topic. I don’t see why my statement was very confusing. The pope condemned kissing for the sake of arousal and sexual pleasure. I am in agreement with him on this matter. What I take issue with is some people’s interpretation of how that plays out in certain circumstances.

Do you mean the definition of passionate used by some is different than what the original poster used?
*
passionate

2 a* : capable of, affected by, or expressing intense feeling b : enthusiastic, ardent
3**:** swayed by or affected with sexual desire

 

[thewanderer]

Do you mean the definition of passionate used by some is different than what the original poster used?
*
passionate

2 a* : capable of, affected by, or expressing intense feeling b : enthusiastic, ardent
3**:** swayed by or affected with sexual desire

The OP did not bring up passionate kissing at all, which is why it has nothing to do with this thread. As for the exact definition of it, I really don’t care what definition is used or see how that effects my position as summed up in my last post. I agree with the Pope’s official declaration that kissing for the sake of arousal and sexual pleasure outside of marriage is wrong. However I do not agree with some people’s interpretation of what that means when applied to certain particular circumstances. That is all I am going to say on this topic on this thread.

 

[Vico]

The OP did not bring up passionate kissing at all, which is why it has nothing to do with this thread. As for the exact definition of it, I really don’t care what definition is used or see how that effects my position as summed up in my last post. I agree with the Pope’s official declaration that kissing for the sake of arousal and sexual pleasure outside of marriage is wrong. However I do not agree with some people’s interpretation of what that means when applied to certain particular circumstances. That is all I am going to say on this topic on this thread.

His second post has: “Wow didnt know passionate kissing is a grave sin and we french kiss all the time.”

 

[GoRangers]

Sleep on the couch, buddy. There is a progression to these things.