Is it a sin, Mortal Sin to eat meat on Fridays during Lent?

[kage_ar]

First of all, isn’t this a discipline…not a doctrine? If so, I’m still not seeing how failing to comply with a discipline results in a mortal sin.

And if it does, I"m once again confused …how does purposely not eating meat on a Friday in Lent equate with something like having an abortion? Lately, I’m having a hard time wrapping my head around the various things that constitute grave matter.

Disobedience to the laws of the Church (be they dogma, doctrine or discipline) violates the 1st and the 5th Commandments.

I’d strongly suggest you get a copy of “Catholicism for Dummies” sit down with your Catechism and give it a side by side read.

The Catechism section on sin begins at 1846

scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s1c1a8.htm#1846

 

[Pug]

First of all, isn’t this a discipline…not a doctrine? If so, I’m still not seeing how failing to comply with a discipline results in a mortal sin.

And if it does, I"m once again confused …how does purposely not eating meat on a Friday in Lent equate with something like having an abortion? Lately, I’m having a hard time wrapping my head around the various things that constitute grave matter.

Hmmm. Maybe it would help if I described it as a positive law. By positive, I mean that instead of telling us what not to do, it tells us what to do. The Church has the power to make laws. Another example would be that if two Catholics marry, they must marry in the Church (there are exceptions). Or, that we must observe the Holy Days of Obligation besides Sundays. That last one can vary like fasting - the days may be different in different places.

You are right, then, that it is not like abortion. Abortion is always wrong, even if the laws that a country makes try to say otherwise. Eating meat or going places on a particular day are not fundamentally wrong. What bothers you here is that they can become wrong on account of positive law. This is because we are obliged to obey authority. So, it is wrong not to show up for jury duty here in the USA because the law states that this is how we must serve, and it is for the common good. It would be a sin to violate a law like that, as well as illegal. We are to submit to proper authority. The Church, for our minimum progress, for our good, has set these laws. Can you see that it would be a sin to violate what the authority has told us to do? (I mean without good reason, of course)

It is like the fourth commandment. Children are to obey their parents.

 

[baylee]

Disobedience to the laws of the Church (be they dogma, doctrine or discipline) violates the 1st and the 5th Commandments.

I’d strongly suggest you get a copy of “Catholicism for Dummies” sit down with your Catechism and give it a side by side read.

The Catechism section on sin begins at 1846

scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s1c1a8.htm#1846

First of all, I find this insulting…but I’m not surprised that you’d suggest such a thing.
Second of all, no one has posted where the Church teaches that not eating meat on Fridays in Lent results in a mortal sin…which is what others have said here.

I’m not looking for a tutorial on sin (I also went through RCIA too…and know my Catechism pretty darn well TYVM)…I am asking a very specifc question and I have yet to get the answer.

 

[baylee]

OK, I did a search on this website to get a direct answer…and found this:

jimmyakin.org/2004/04/meat_on_lenten_.html

It does mention what Pug wrote in one of his posts, so I guess this is the basis of the teaching. It doesn’t look like the Catechism explains this (meat on Friday = mortal sin) and I wish it did considering it’s apparently such a big deal. I am not surprised that it’s a sin, but I am surprised that it can constitute a mortal sin…

which gets back to my head scratching over eating meat on Friday (mortal sin) = abortion (mortal sin). And no, this doesn’t mean I am looking for a tutorial on sins.

 

[kage_ar]

First of all, I find this insulting…but I’m not surprised that you’d suggest such a thing.
Second of all, no one has posted where the Church teaches that not eating meat on Fridays in Lent results in a mortal sin…which is what others have said here.

I’m not looking for a tutorial on sin (I also went through RCIA too…and know my Catechism pretty darn well TYVM)…I am asking a very specifc question and I have yet to get the answer.

Catholicism for Dummies is one of the best books out there to provide a broad yet orthodox view of the Faith. It is written by two very well respected men. We provide this book to many, many Catholics and non-Catholics who wish to know the Faith better.

You seem to be uninformed about some of the basics of the Faith, and this book hand in hand with the CCC will fill in the gaps left by most RCIA programs, TYVM.

The Catechism is not the be-all-end-all for teaching. To form your conscience, one is required to read the Church documents as well as orthodox teaching documents.

Your offense where none is warranted shows some misunderstanding about the spiritual and corporal works of mercy.

 

[kage_ar]

Here are many USCCB and Vatican links for you to digest:

vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/apost_constitutions/documents/hf_p-vi_apc_19660217_paenitemini_en.html

usccb.org/norms/12521253.htm

usccb.org/doctrine/penitential.shtml

 

[baylee]

Catholicism for Dummies is one of the best books out there to provide a broad yet orthodox view of the Faith. It is written by two very well respected men. We provide this book to many, many Catholics and non-Catholics who wish to know the Faith better.

You seem to be uninformed about some of the basics of the Faith, and this book hand in hand with the CCC will fill in the gaps left by most RCIA programs, TYVM.

The Catechism is not the be-all-end-all for teaching. To form your conscience, one is required to read the Church documents as well as orthodox teaching documents.

Your offense where none is warranted shows some misunderstanding about the spiritual and corporal works of mercy.

You mean like when you stated I bashed your church? Perhaps you and I need to ignore one another.

 

[kage_ar]

You mean like when you stated I bashed your church? Perhaps you and I need to ignore one another.

I would suggest that we stick to discussing the topic at hand.

Yes, it has been proven from the documents of the Church that to break the law of abstainence is grave matter.

 

[need_to_know]

Well, to be precise, it is the disobedience that could be a mortal sin. It is not the eating of meat itself, as proved by the fact some other countries do not have this ‘no meat on Lenten Fridays’ rule, the U.K. for one. Not eating meat is just one of the penances possible here.

If it were the actual eating of meat that were the sin, then that would apply worldwide, wouldn’t it.

We do have the ‘no meat on Lenten Fridays’ rule here in the UK.

 

[baylee]

I would suggest that we stick to discussing the topic at hand.

Yes, it has been proven from the documents of the Church that to break the law of abstainence is grave matter.

Well thank you for finally just answering the question without showing me up. However, I prefer to ignore you here on out (if there was some formal way to do this in these forums I would do so)…the words you choose and your manner of posting to me and to others puts me off.

 

[Pug]

Factual Point: this forum does have an ignore feature. It will cover up whatever the person wrote. It will not cover up that they replied, though, nor will it cover it up when someone else quotes their posts, not that I recall. You can access it from the long menu on the left from your main profile page. That is, click on the word “profile” from the list of words under the ads at the top of the page. Then read the list on the left carefully until you find the Edit Ignore List.

I don’t use this feature much.

 

[paperwight]

We do have the ‘no meat on Lenten Fridays’ rule here in the UK.

That’s interesting. I’ve just been on the Catholic Bishops of England and Wales Conference website, and neither in the ‘What is Lent’ or ‘Prayer, Fasting and Almsgiving’ sections is there a mention of Fridays in Lent being days of abstinence. Plenty of encouragement to self-denial etc. all through Lent, but nothing specifically about Fridays (except Good Friday, of course).

Where did you read this?

 

[need_to_know]

That’s interesting. I’ve just been on the Catholic Bishops of England and Wales Conference website, and neither in the ‘What is Lent’ or ‘Prayer, Fasting and Almsgiving’ sections is there a mention of Fridays in Lent being days of abstinence. Plenty of encouragement to self-denial etc. all through Lent, but nothing specifically about Fridays (except Good Friday, of course).

Where did you read this?

I hate to dig up an old thread but noticed I had not given a reply here…

I was previously under the impression that in England and Wales we were to abstain from meat on Ash Wednesday, Good Friday and Fridays in Lent. I did some research and found that the answer is slightly different…

Under Canons 1249-1253 the rules on fasting and abstinence are universal (Canon 1251: ‘Abstinence from meat, or from some other food as determined by the Episcopal Conference, is to be observed on all Fridays, unless a solemnity should fall on a Friday. Abstinence and fasting are to be observed on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday.’). The only exceptions are where there has been an exception granted by that country/region’s bishops’ conference. I did not think that was the case but according to this document from the Catholic Bishops’ Conference of England and Wales the abstaining may be fulfilled in a variety of ways (not just abstaining from meat).

Please note that this only applies to England and Wales and not to the rest of the UK, where other rules may apply.

 

[Yeoman]

A couple of random thoughts on this topic.

1. I’ve sometimes wondered if the US bishops changed the “no meat” on Friday’s rule in order to make we American Catholics seem less an “other”. Not eating meat on Fridays did distinguish us as an “other”. While other Americans were running around eating whatever on Friday, we were eating fish, or perhaps more likely in other areas, macaroni and cheese. The Bishops, I wonder, might have thought as part of our new main stream nature (you know, JFK was one of us, etc.) that we could dispense with this and seem more American. That the fish on Fridays was regarded as a bit unique is the case. Even now I still occasionally hear Catholics referred to with the derogatory nickname “Minnow Eaters”. If they’re slamming us, they’re noticing us.

I don’t know if that’s true, but I wonder.

Anyhow, if that was part of it, I wonder if that was an error. As it turns out, when we became really American, we also felt that we could pick and choose what we liked, which hasn’t helped us at all in all sorts of ways. And it sometimes seems to be the case that our uniqueness, in some ways, is what at first attracts some Converts. But then, I’m no expert in this.

1. This is yet another era where, quite frankly the Church does a terrible job of informing us what is expected of us. I think I’ve heard this referred to in Church exactly once. Nobody mentioned it back when I was in Catechism Class (granted, that’s a long time ago). My folks continued to have fish on Fridays, but that’s because my dad was a dedicated fisherman, and we always had lots and lots of fish. If you’re going to be eating fish anyway, why not on Friday? Anyhow, this is an area where we really don’t get much information. It’s almost as if the clergy is reluctant to tell us the rules here.
2. Finally, while I often see it noted that fish on Fridays wasn’t much of a sacrifice, for many it really is. My family generally doesn’t observe fish on Fridays, and we try to do something else, but my wife is non Catholic and this is an area where it’ll be baffling to her if I try to introduce the practice now, outside of Lent. But on the road (and I’m on the road a lot) I do try to observe it. A few Fridays of McFish (or whatever) and you do appreciate the difficulty of it in some areas. And for a lot of us when we try to observe it, it isn’t lobster, but mac and cheese, which is no luxury.

 

[Pug]

Yeoman,

I rather felt like you the first time I found out about what the bishops teach about all Fridays. “Why aren’t they informing people of this?” I wondered. I often feel that they do not offer enough information about things that are basic, that are supposed to be a part of our lives regularly. Fridays happen pretty often, and are part of every Catholic’s life. It seems odd that no one tells you about them. I also consider marriage prep basic, but they do nothing about that until mere “seconds”, considering the length of a lifetime, before the actual event. They need to do more with that at a younger age to be more effective.

Perhaps it is simply a manpower issue? Not enough resources, time, or people to spread the information? Maybe it is some kind of holdover assumption that the family is doing the educating, even though this can no longer be the case, since it is rare to find a family member who knows much about the faith these days.

I agree about the mac and cheese. A meal of that and I feel sick (from all the cheese and fat). A salad is much more to edible and also lots of restaurants have them. You’d have to get something else with them, though, since they have too few calories to constitute a meal for someone who does any work or exercise.