Is it a sin to hate a process?

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thestickman

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Been waiting on annulments for my wife and I to be decided for over a year. I’ve begun recently to feel hatred for the process. Not for the people doing or not doing their jobs–just the process itself. Please keep in mind, I wasn’t born or raised Catholic so I’m admittedly ignorant on these issues.

Is it a sin to hate the annulment process?
 
I guess I’m not going to really answer your actual question, but I wanted to empathize with you and your feelings for the process as I have gone through an annulment myself. It took me about 7 months after the civil divorce for me to actually be able to start answering the questions required for the annulment and send it in. I had “issues” with the whole concept. I didn’t quite “get” it. It took a lot of research and praying before I could bring myself to whole-heartedly look at why the Church allows the dissolution of a marriage and why, if I’m interested in participating in my faith, I needed to have one.

My parents prayed for a “quick” annulment. And I have to say it worked out to be quite quick: about 6 months. Maybe my situation had been pretty cut and dry, so to speak, but if you are feeling frustration for the process think about what is really happening and pray for a speedy decision.

I don’t know how familiar you are with the process, but there are preset time allowances built into the process, for reasons I am not totally sure about but I think have to do with giving each party a chance to think and pray and respond if necessary. In the state I was civilly divorced in, there was even a built in timeframe of 120 days from filing to the court date for the divorce.

Maybe none of this helps you right now, but remember how long it took you and your spouse to date, arrange a wedding, plan things together. You may be anxious to have it all over with and move on with your life in that regard, but trust in God that the time it takes now is building some graces and take this opportunity to turn your frustration around into patience and peace…

I’m sorry to hear of the dissolusion of any marriage; I know this is a difficult time. Thank you for writing and sharing your thoughts.
 
Thanks for sharing. If we had been raised Catholic I wouldn’t have a thing in the world to complain about, IMO. We weren’t. My wife and I have been married for 6+ years. Ours is a wonderful marriage and we are both grateful and thankful. Before we met we each experienced failed marriages where the term Sacrament was not a part of the process in any fashion.

IMO, at this point in time, based on all I’ve seen and read, Satan is the only one benefitting from this insanely slow process. I hate him and hate this process. Were it not for my 100% belief in the Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, I would have blown this nonsense off. However, I can’t, knowingly do that. Also this belief in the Eucharist doesn’t make me hate the annulment process any less.
 
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thestickman:
Been waiting on annulments for my wife and I to be decided for over a year. I’ve begun recently to feel hatred for the process. Not for the people doing or not doing their jobs–just the process itself. Please keep in mind, I wasn’t born or raised Catholic so I’m admittedly ignorant on these issues.

Is it a sin to hate the annulment process?
One suggestion - check with your witnesses to ensure that all have sent back their testimony. The Tribunal’s are usually overloaded and do not follow up on missing paper work; they just leave it in the pending file.

Also you might call the Tribunal, or have a priest call, to see if action is awaiting anything more. You don’t want to irritate them with too much prodding, but the squeaky wheel does get the grease.
 
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thestickman:
Been waiting on annulments for my wife and I to be decided for over a year. I’ve begun recently to feel hatred for the process. Not for the people doing or not doing their jobs–just the process itself. Please keep in mind, I wasn’t born or raised Catholic so I’m admittedly ignorant on these issues.

Is it a sin to hate the annulment process?
No. I wouldn’t say it is a sin. It is sometimes an inconvenience though, same as waiting a year to take the Eucharist whilst in my confirmation class. I felt I already believe and know fully that it IS the body and blood Christ. Just like with annulments however, THERE IS EXCELLENT REASON for it!!! It gives us time to ponder, learn, discover, etc., In an annulment, it gives the pain some growth time, and understanding why??? Is your annulment from a previous marriage? This is especially why!!! Take it as a time for God to teach you something friend.
 
I don’t understand something in this thread. You’re both referring to not recieving communion while going through the annulment process - I wasn’t aware people getting an annument were excommunicated? Is separation or civil divorce a mortal sin even if you haven’t remarried?
 
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BlindSheep:
I don’t understand something in this thread. You’re both referring to not recieving communion while going through the annulment process - I wasn’t aware people getting an annument were excommunicated? Is separation or civil divorce a mortal sin even if you haven’t remarried?
I can’t speak to the latter question but I can tell you our priest assured me that my wife and I are living in mortal sin, courtesy of our 1st marriages, divorce and civil marriage to each other. We get zero access to the Sacraments till the annulments go thru. Then we get to make our 1st Confessions, be Confirmed and take 1st Eucharist…assuming something else dones’t jump up and gum the works further.

I never dreamed joining the one True Apostolic Church would entail such a nitemare. If anyone doesn’t think it’s a nitemare, then I encourage them to learn with me: deny yourself the Sacraments for an indeterminent amount of time. Be prepared to hear ambiguous answers when you ask, “how much longer?” It’s tons of fun, lemme assure you.
 
May I respectfully suggest that if you are having as much hatred for the process and bitterness toward not getting “access” to the Sacraments that you aren’t truly understanding what the Sacrament of Marriage is and what an annulment is for. I suggest that you talk with your priest about this.

If either you or your current wife had been married in any church prior to your marriage now, and have not received annulments from those prior marriages, then your priest is correct in saying that you are living in sin. In the eyes of God you are still married to your previous spouses.

I’m assuming that the 2 of you have converted to Catholicism after you got married to each other… is this true? If 2 people want to get married in the Catholic church it is definitely encouraged for them to receive their annulments prior to getting married. The issue of not receiving the Sacraments only applies if people who have been formerly married to others get married again without an annulment. If the same 2 people stayed single while they were waiting for annulments from previous marriages, and were not in any other state of sin, they are free to receive the Sacraments, even if they are divorced.
 
Psalm 37:4-5:
May I respectfully suggest that if you are having as much hatred for the process and bitterness toward not getting “access” to the Sacraments that you aren’t truly understanding what the Sacrament of Marriage is and what an annulment is for. I suggest that you talk with your priest about this.
And I would respectfully suggest you have no clue about my level of understanding regarding the Sacraments. I would also respectfully suggest it’s unwise to put words into someone’s mouth. Your suggestion I am bitter about anything is invalid.

I would LOVE to talk to my priest about this. However, he’s the lone priest in a parish of 2800 families and apparently doesn’t have time to deal with these issues. I have been amazed there isn’t a ministry of any kind to assist people in our situation. The ONLY person we get to deal with regarding this matter is a Deacon who, by his own admission, doesn’t have much of a clue what’s going on.
Psalm 37:4-5:
If either you or your current wife had been married in any church prior to your marriage now, and have not received annulments from those prior marriages, then your priest is correct in saying that you are living in sin.
I knew that.
Psalm 37:4-5:
In the eyes of God you are still married to your previous spouses.
According to the CCC you are right.
Psalm 37:4-5:
I’m assuming that the 2 of you have converted to Catholicism after you got married to each other… is this true?
We are in the process of converting. We were civily married 6+ years ago. We have a wonderful marriage and have both been looking forward to having our marriage validated in the Church.
Psalm 37:4-5:
If 2 people want to get married in the Catholic church it is definitely encouraged for them to receive their annulments prior to getting married. The issue of not receiving the Sacraments only applies if people who have been formerly married to others get married again without an annulment. If the same 2 people stayed single while they were waiting for annulments from previous marriages, and were not in any other state of sin, they are free to receive the Sacraments, even if they are divorced.
 
I think if you and your wife abstain until you have the annulments, you can recieve the Sacraments…
 
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thestickman:
IMO, at this point in time, based on all I’ve seen and read, Satan is the only one benefitting from this insanely slow process. I hate him and hate this process. Were it not for my 100% belief in the Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, I would have blown this nonsense off. However, I can’t, knowingly do that. Also this belief in the Eucharist doesn’t make me hate the annulment process any less.
I feel for you. I’ve never been through it, but I personally think it is a man-made invention. This, according to some, make me a “bad” Catholic, or a heretic, since I dare disagree with this huge bureaucracy that some consider obviously God-ordained or the infallible Church wouldn’t do it. (Thanks in advance for those who would save my soul by reminding me that I’m going to hell for entertaining this line of reasoning.)

Because I was merely promiscuous and never actually got married to any of the women with whom I had conjugal relations (and even had a child with one, back in high school) then I didn’t have this problem at all. No marriage at all – even a civil marriage which the Church doesn’t recognize anyway – means no subsequent problems with getting married in the Church that can’t be absolved with a simple confession.

Unfortunate message to all: if you are sexually active but not sure you’re totally committed for life to your partner, then staying single is prudent because it will ease the transition into a Church marriage should you ever seek it.

Perhaps your level of obedience to the Church even when you so disagree with her will count for something. I’m sure satan thinks he’s going to get through to you, but with your belief in the Eucharist the way it is, satan might just have an unpleasant surprise coming. Please hang in there.

Alan

Disclaimer: I have changed my mind before on issues with which I had previously disagreed with the church.
 
I don’t think it’s a sin to be frustrated or not understand it - if it is, I’m already in trouble and I’ve not even started the process, yet.

I was married at 17 in a church. There was nothing of a real “marriage” beyond the wedding. I went into it knowing that if he didn’t turn out the way I wanted, I could just get a divorce. He cheated on me months after the wedding and I could/would not forgive him and eventually left him.

Several years later I married my present husband. We had some pretty severe ups and downs, even separating and reconciling a couple of times at about the 7-10 year marks. But, ever since then, when I realized that I had been childish, selfish and unrealistic, our marriage has gotten better and better all the time. Today it is what I think God intended marriage to be. A real partnership and we love each other more every year. We know each other inside out and accept warts and all - we’ve been together 25 years.

It’s going to be very frustrating for me to deal with the annulment process for what to me seems to be a marriage that never truly even existed, especially since this marriage seems so close to what I perceive as a true gift to us from God.

I’m really dreading the annulment thing - I’m sure that I will fight this at times. I will surely have my moments of annoyance and anger. But, I’m trying to gear myself up for it, now with the understanding that God wouldn’t give it to me without a reason. I also believe that the reasons may be hidden and have more than one level, so I’m willing to listen and be open to the reasons. I am building my resolve to be obedient.

I guess I don’t even have a thorough understanding of the process, though - from everything I’ve read so far, I’ve been under the impression that my husband and I could devote ourselves to living together chastely in order to take part in Confirmation, Reconciliation and Communion.

It will certainly be a trial of my patience either way - which could actually use some stretching, if you know what I mean. 😉

But, I have the same trust in the sacraments as you have and I’ll bet that trust will pull us through these rough spots.

Good luck and God bless you - not much longer - hang in there!

Elizabeth
 
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ElizabethJoy:
Good luck and God bless you - not much longer - hang in there!

Elizabeth
Thank you! I cannot, without deluding myself turn away from the path I’m on. Just trying to make sense of something that at present, makes zero sense: the endless waiting.
 
God bless you whichever way it goes. I’m a law student with some large interest in catholic canon law, especially in the marital area. There are things I don’t like and the last time I tried enumerating my doubts and coming up with potential contradictions, I reached thirty positions. I don’t like the way it’s handled by some courts and I’ve seen verdicts that have made me drop my jaw and yell “what?!”

I’m telling you… when you don’t understand it, it’s already a problem. But the more you get to understand, the more frightening is what goes on. People entering into marriage in bad faith, witnesses lying, ecclesiastic judges differing between one another. I’ve actually heard “Father X would rule the opposite.” The whole thing is excruciating and so are the lengths to which the Church has to go to protect people from themselves. And no, disciplinary rules and canon law aren’t infallible and are not a part of the Magisterium.

The worst thing is courts ruling differently. Take ten random church judges and poll them on what they think is enough to rule the marriage invalid from Canon 1095. What level of coercion is enough. What gravity of lie is sufficient. In what cases previously known consanguinity makes it invalid. What kind of resolve not to have children is sufficient. What degree of lack of intent to contract an indissoluble marriage is enough to warrant invalidity.

When you’re done polling, ask yourself how much God cares about the whole poll. How much God cares about all the lawyering.

You can have two identical cases in two courts in two different parts of the world. In Nowhereton, they will rule pro vinculo. In Nothingville, they will rule pro nullitate.

Then there’s the level of education in this matters which makes people think diocesan courts can “award” annulments like divorces on a number of “grounds”. They will pull the VII on the court in defence of something which isn’t a valid marriage. Or they will “tweak” the testimony, using a witty lawyer’s advice, to get a favourable result.

Let’s take two cases I’ve come across:
  1. Deep in Russia, there was a general dispensation for Catholics from canonical form. The lesser canonical form was still binding, that is, you needed two witnesses. With this condition met, civil marriages were sacramental. You could contract a sacramental marriage without knowing. One couple got a nullity decree because they contracted the civil marriage in the presence of one civil officer and no witnesses. The civil officer counted as one witness. Had there been any other person present, the marriage would have been valid.
  2. In Italy, there was a couple whose parents were cousins. The blood relation was common knowledge. The couple didn’t know if the priest had obtained a dispensation from the bishop. Later, he left her, divorced civilly and married another woman. He got his nullity decree on the grounds of consanguinity. Back in the old times, even marriages of siblings were upheld for converts, even though there was no aprioric dispensation for such a marriage possible.
Legally, everything looks all right. But… Canon law is discipline, fallible etc. But the Magisterium on marriage is infallible. The result is a blasting headache to put it lightly.

What I believe should be done is spelling out the requirements for a valid marriage instead of enumarating nullity grounds. If they said, “this and that amount of consent/knowledge/openness/dedication is enough,” it would be much easier and it would work on the same principle as creating formal requirements (e.g. that Catholics can’t normally marry in civil ceremonies). There is an authority to do that. But when different judges start to differ on what’s enough to declare a marriage invalid…
 
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ElizabethJoy:
I’m really dreading the annulment thing - I’m sure that I will fight this at times. I will surely have my moments of annoyance and anger. But, I’m trying to gear myself up for it, now with the understanding that God wouldn’t give it to me without a reason. I also believe that the reasons may be hidden and have more than one level, so I’m willing to listen and be open to the reasons. I am building my resolve to be obedient.
Dear Elizabeth,

Thank you for these words. I think they could apply with practically anything I don’t like substituted for the “annulment thing.”

In general, I am trying to raise my faith to the level that I can be in good cheer even faced with “certain evil.” Based on the world and my previous behavior, I’m in a certain situation at any given time. I have options. If I want an annulment, I accept what the current process is.

Doesn’t mean I have to like it. If I have faith, though, I can be in perfect serenity at all times even when doing things that I wouldn’t probably have chosen, had I the control over things the way I might wish.

Alan
 
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chevalier:
And no, disciplinary rules and canon law aren’t infallible and are not a part of the Magisterium.
That’s good to know! 🙂

Alan
 
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thestickman:
Thank you! I cannot, without deluding myself turn away from the path I’m on. Just trying to make sense of something that at present, makes zero sense: the endless waiting.
I’m very glad that your mind is clear on where you’re going and I’ll pray for the doors to open before you and the way to become smoother and on the occasion of your first communion, I’ll certainly celebrate with you!

I’m sorry that you don’t feel free to go to your priest with this - when they’re so busy, you feel guilty about adding even one more thing to their plate, don’t you? Can you make an appointment with him? Maybe he could give you a contact at the Diocese. Like someone else said, maybe you’re in a “pending” file waiting statements from people who haven’t responded?
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chevalier:
But when different judges start to differ on what’s enough to declare a marriage invalid…
Oh dear … I had somehow imagined this to be an orderly and easy (if time-consuming) process with simple formulas - “if X, then Y.” Thanks for the reality check! 😉 Pretty interesting commentary on how some of this works. (or doesn’t, as the case may be.)
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AlanFromWichita:
If I have faith, though, I can be in perfect serenity at all times even when doing things that I wouldn’t probably have chosen, had I the control over things the way I might wish.
I hope you’re right! It’s going to be hard to go through some of this - I haven’t found anything in the Church’s teachings that I can’t live with and obey - and if I do run up against things which are difficult, I am going to do my best to understand it and change my will to be in accord with God’s.

But, the bureacracy… I hope that won’t be where I trip - I’ve never had any patience with red tape. Reminds me of working for the government, somehow. And I can tell myself all day that there’s a reason for this or that, but when it’s purely a case of red tape, my patience tends to go right out the window! 😦

Elizabeth
 
You have my sympathy. Hang in there. It is a sin, though, to indulge in feeling sorry for yourself. If everyone is doing their best, resolve to be as patient as you can, in gratitude for their efforts. Gratitude is a great salve for self-pity.
 
chevalier said:
1. Deep in Russia, there was a general dispensation for Catholics from canonical form. The lesser canonical form was still binding, that is, you needed two witnesses. With this condition met, civil marriages were sacramental. You could contract a sacramental marriage without knowing. One couple got a nullity decree because they contracted the civil marriage in the presence of one civil officer and no witnesses. The civil officer counted as one witness. Had there been any other person present, the marriage would have been valid.

Do you have a problem with this ruling? To me it seems to be in accord with the rules of the Church, and any tribunal judge should have ruled the same way.
 
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