Is it a sin to sell a thing for more than its worth, or to buy it for less than its worth?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Tomdstone
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
T

Tomdstone

Guest
According to St. Thomas, ST II-II 77, “the quality of a thing that comes into human use is measured by the price given for it, for which purpose money was invented, as stated in Ethic. v, 5. Therefore if either the price exceed the quantity of the thing’s worth, or, conversely, the thing exceed the price, there is no longer the equality of justice: and consequently, to sell a thing for more than its worth, or to buy it for less than its worth, is in itself unjust and unlawful.”
Oftentimes we are at a sale and we find that an item is priced below what it is worth. According to St. Thomas, to buy this item for less than it is worth is in itself unjust and unlawful. Do you need to confess this sin and make restitution, since you bought it for less than it was worth and did something unjust and unlawful?
 
As far as I’m concerned, the price agreed upon between the buyer and seller at the time of sale is what the thing is worth at the time of sale.
 
According to St. Thomas, ST II-II 77, “the quality of a thing that comes into human use is measured by the price given for it, for which purpose money was invented, as stated in Ethic. v, 5. Therefore if either the price exceed the quantity of the thing’s worth, or, conversely, the thing exceed the price, there is no longer the equality of justice: and consequently, to sell a thing for more than its worth, or to buy it for less than its worth, is in itself unjust and unlawful.”
Oftentimes we are at a sale and we find that an item is priced below what it is worth. According to St. Thomas, to buy this item for less than it is worth is in itself unjust and unlawful. Do you need to confess this sin and make restitution, since you bought it for less than it was worth and did something unjust and unlawful?
I don’t see how. There’s an article somewhere on NewAdvent that talks about this. It’s called “want of consent” and deals with contracts.

If you want to negotiate, you are allowed to, provided you do not provide any false information, like trying to sell a fake diamond for a real one.
 
The economic value of a man’s work is determined, on a free market, by a single principle: by the voluntary consent of those who are willing to trade him their work or products in return. This is the moral meaning of the law of supply and demand.
 
Does this mean couponers are agents of evil? I have suspected as much.😃
 
According to St. Thomas, ST II-II 77, “the quality of a thing that comes into human use is measured by the price given for it, for which purpose money was invented, as stated in Ethic. v, 5. Therefore if either the price exceed the quantity of the thing’s worth, or, conversely, the thing exceed the price, there is no longer the equality of justice: and consequently, to sell a thing for more than its worth, or to buy it for less than its worth, is in itself unjust and unlawful.”
Oftentimes we are at a sale and we find that an item is priced below what it is worth. According to St. Thomas, to buy this item for less than it is worth is in itself unjust and unlawful. Do you need to confess this sin and make restitution, since you bought it for less than it was worth and did something unjust and unlawful?
If something is on sale, it means it was priced too high and the correct price is a lower price. Or perhaps the seller wants a lower price for another reason, but regardless it is the sellers choice.

What this is speaking of is taking advantage of people:

Example: I sell water for $1 a bottle. But you come to me about to die from dehydration so I change the price to $20 because it’s either you will pay it or die.

That’s unjust.

Similarly, if I somehow deceived or coerced you to give me the water for $0.50 then that is equally unjust.
 
Can’t help but think this is speaking of an unwarranted high or low price. The Bible speaks clearly on using good business principles.
 
I can’t believe that this is not qualified somewhere by Saint Thomas. Otherwise all business and commerce is sinful. If you buy something at its worth, $1.00, you cannot sell it for a higher price. If there is no way to have a profit without committing sin, a person cannot get a livelihood for himself and his family and live rightly.
This idea, which I doubt is from Saint Thomas as it stands, is out of touch with reality.
 
According to St. Thomas, ST II-II 77, “the quality of a thing that comes into human use is measured by the price given for it, for which purpose money was invented, as stated in Ethic. v, 5. Therefore if either the price exceed the quantity of the thing’s worth, or, conversely, the thing exceed the price, there is no longer the equality of justice: and consequently, to sell a thing for more than its worth, or to buy it for less than its worth, is in itself unjust and unlawful.”
Oftentimes we are at a sale and we find that an item is priced below what it is worth. According to St. Thomas, to buy this item for less than it is worth is in itself unjust and unlawful. Do you need to confess this sin and make restitution, since you bought it for less than it was worth and did something unjust and unlawful?
That’s called a profit and a bargain, I do it when I have a garage sale and when I go to a garage sale or thrift store. God Bless, Memaw
 
According to St. Thomas, ST II-II 77, “the quality of a thing that comes into human use is measured by the price given for it, for which purpose money was invented, as stated in Ethic. v, 5.Therefore if either the price exceed the quantity of the thing’s worth, or, conversely, the thing exceed the price, there is no longer the equality of justice: and consequently, to sell a thing for more than its worth, or to buy it for less than its worth, is in itself unjust and unlawful.”
Oftentimes we are at a sale and we find that an item is priced below what it is worth. According to St. Thomas, to buy this item for less than it is worth is in itself unjust and unlawful. Do you need to confess this sin and make restitution, since you bought it for less than it was worth and did something unjust and unlawful?
Actually, if what Thomas says is correct, then the sale price is actually the just price. This is because businesses typically price their product in the following way: Cost+.

There is a strategy for employing the “+” part. Initially, on first release, the markup is high. This is to take advantage of two kinds of people: 1) wealthy people who are willing to pay more for a given product, and 2) people who are willing to shell out the extra money because they want to have the “latest and greatest” fashion or model.

After a certain amount of time has passed, say six months, the markup is reduced. This is to take advantage of the next set of buyers. This continues until they reach the bargain buyers, who typically buy at, or close to cost. After this point they finally sell below cost (negative markup). This is usually toward the end of the life of a product, and it’s the only way they’ll get money for it, or during the close out of store or business, and they need to liquidate quickly.

There are two questions one can pose about this economic system. First, what moral implication does this have for the average buyer? Second, is this even a just system to begin with?

I would suggest that, because the average buyer doesn’t know what the true cost of any given product is (since the seller doesn’t typically publish that information), then little fault can be assigned to him if he engages in an unjust transaction. The fault is negligible, but not zero, however, as with any transaction one can take the time to investigate the value of the product.

As for the justice of the system itself, if what Thomas says is true, then this system is essentially flawed.

He points out the reason that money was invented: to measure the value of a product. I will add to this and say “to measure the value of a product in order to facilitate a broader exchange of product.” Prior to the use of currencies, human exchange was accomplished by barter. This ensured a fair exchange of goods, but it limited who you could exchange with, and what you could exchange. Currency removed that limitation.

But, what about profit? That’s essentially what this question boils down to. If someone made a profit within the barter system, it’s because he was part of an unfair exchange, he exchanged something of lesser value for something of greater value.

“Markup” appears to be a violation of the principle of fair exchange. Effectively, anything sold at markup is sold at a higher value than its worth. One might argue that the widening income gap is due solely to profit, which, if St. Thomas is right, appears to be the result of immoral business practice.

Interesting.
 
As far as I’m concerned, the price agreed upon between the buyer and seller at the time of sale is what the thing is worth at the time of sale.
So you dont think Jesus would have a problem with HUGE retail companies selling products to people at a 350% or higher mark up?
 
So you dont think Jesus would have a problem with HUGE retail companies selling products to people at a 350% or higher mark up?
Is the consumer free to take his business elsewhere?
If so, then morality does not play into it.
It is just a poor business decision.
 
I can’t believe that this is not qualified somewhere by Saint Thomas. Otherwise all business and commerce is sinful. If you buy something at its worth, $1.00, you cannot sell it for a higher price. If there is no way to have a profit without committing sin, a person cannot get a livelihood for himself and his family and live rightly.
This idea, which I doubt is from Saint Thomas as it stands, is out of touch with reality.
I think it is. I recall reading that both St. Thomas Aquinas and St. Augustine said a “just price” is the price at which the buyer gives something he values less for something he values more and the seller does the same thing.

So, in giving $X for a gallon of milk, the buyer values the milk more than he does the money and the seller values the money more than he does the milk.

Obviously, that means “willingly given”, not coerced by force, fraud or extremity.
 
There is nothing socially, morally or religiously wrong with profit.
 
According to St. Thomas, ST II-II 77, “the quality of a thing that comes into human use is measured by the price given for it, for which purpose money was invented, as stated in Ethic. v, 5. Therefore if either the price exceed the quantity of the thing’s worth, or, conversely, the thing exceed the price, there is no longer the equality of justice: and consequently, to sell a thing for more than its worth, or to buy it for less than its worth, is in itself unjust and unlawful.”
Oftentimes we are at a sale and we find that an item is priced below what it is worth.
It has been so way before St Thomas Aquinas.

Deut 25:13-16 13 “You shall not have in your bag two kinds of weights, a large and a small. 14 You shall not have in your house two kinds of measures, a large and a small. 15 A full and just weight you shall have, a full and just measure you shall have; that your days may be prolonged in the land which the Lord your God gives you. 16 For all who do such things, all who act dishonestly, are an abomination to the Lord your God.

Prov 11:1 A false balance is an abomination to the Lord,
but a just weight is his delight.

Prov 20:23 Diverse weights are an abomination to the Lord,
and false scales are not good.
Do you need to confess this sin and make restitution, since you bought it for less than it was worth and did something unjust and unlawful?
Yes, it’s a form of stealing as shown in the verses above. Prudence is required for proper understanding here. Neither the Scripture nor St. Thomas are refering to normal fair barganing, haggling or dickering over the price. They are refering to cheating or unjustly depreving someone of the goods or worth of the goods.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top