Is it lying to have an underlying purpose?

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Kathrin

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Let’s say you are looking at a website in a foreign language with somebody else to look up something, but you also or especially, want to use it as an opportunity to show the other person that you are already well-versed in the foreign language. Would that be lying because you have that underlying purpose that you didn’t disclose? Or sinful in any other way? Or am I being scrupulous again?

Kathrin
 
I would think it depends on the exact situation since full disclosure of every motive for every action is impractical, if for no other reason because some motives might not be conscience. You have to ask yourself, “Was any intentional harm done?” In your example, what you did might be intellectual play with the intent to inspire or it might have been your intent to establish intellectual dominance over a person out of pride.
 
Kathrin said:
Let’s say you are looking at a website in a foreign language with somebody else to look up something, but you also or especially, want to use it as an opportunity to show the other person that you are already well-versed in the foreign language. Would that be lying because you have that underlying purpose that you didn’t disclose? Or sinful in any other way? Or am I being scrupulous again?

Kathrin
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On the surface this situation reads as prideful, which would be a sin. Why do you need to demonstrate knowledge of this foreign language to this person?
 
Highwayhound said:
On the surface this situation reads as prideful, which would be a sin. Why do you need to demonstrate knowledge of this foreign language to this person?
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It was my Mom.
We had been talking about my dream to move to a foreign country again.
Showing her I know the language pretty well is like showing her I am serious.

It’s like making a statement about who you are, or something.
Is that a sin?

About pride. What exactly is sinful pride. If we did something well, or have accomplished something, is ti wrong to feel good about it?

Kathrin
 
Ok, about the “pride” thing I called my priest. He said that it’s a only a sin if you start looking down on other people. Just feeling good about being good at something wouldn’t be a sin.
 
Kathrin said:
Let’s say you are looking at a website in a foreign language with somebody else to look up something, but you also or especially, want to use it as an opportunity to show the other person that you are already well-versed in the foreign language. Would that be lying because you have that underlying purpose that you didn’t disclose? Or sinful in any other way? Or am I being scrupulous again?

Kathrin
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I think that if you are proud of your ability to speak a foreign language, then you should bring it up in conversation and tell that person in the most relevant way. Especially if it’s your mom! Family members usually always want to hear what interests you! Family are the most selfless friends we have.

Trying to sneak it in there would come off to me to be rude and immature.

Of course, if it’s not relevant to the conversation, then I think you would be better off keeping that fact to yourself until it is appropriate. Giving glory to God is most important. Sometimes it is okay to obtain the glory of man, if, of course, it is really the glory of God you are after. It is never okay to seek the glory of man for its own sake. For this reason, you should probably refrain from speaking too much of your own ability lest you fall into a trap of pride and vainglory.
 
I think this has less to do with me wanting to be proud of an ability I have than to show somebody who is dear to me a part of myself. This is part of a dream I have of moving to another country, like telling my Mom: Look I am getting ready for that.

Maybe I do this too much sometimes, maybe there is something wrong with me. 😊 Hinting at things, you know. When I am too embarrassed to just say them. Especially if it is something I am good at maybe.

And that’s what I suddenly wondered if it might be a way of lying? It’s like when you say to somebody let’s go for a walk when you know you will pass a certain beautiful place that you want the other person to see too, but you’re too embarrassed to say “let’s go see that place”, you want to just pass by and let the other person see for themselves.

Or you watch a movie with somebody but really you just want the other person to catch a certain piece of wisdom from that movie, something a character says. But you don’t mention it when you turn on the movie, just see if the other person catches it or not.

Maybe I have to try to be more direct and less embarrassed somehow. But sometimes especially with parents it’s kind of easier to kind of hint at things and try to find out how crazy they think you are now with this new dream you have…😉

Right now I doubt again if I would call what I did in that specific case lying. We were really looking up something on the internet. I LIKED it that it was an opportunity to show my Mom something about myself. Maybe I was more eager to keep looking for information because I was hoping for that opportunity. But is that lying?

See now I waonder, should I go to my Mom and confess: You know, yesterday when we were online together and looked up that stuff, maybe what I really wanted was to show you…

My parents already think I am being way overscrupulous. But maybe in this case I should?

Kathrin

(edited to add:)
Now I have a good example. Like for example I call my Mom into my room to talk about something, and I really do it exactly when a song is on that describes my mood at the moment. Because it is important to me to convey something to her.
Lying?
 
Ok, I told my Mom.
She was surprised how I could find anything to feel guilty about about this.
 
Highwayhound said:
Good!
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Yeah I feel better now. Thanks! 🙂

A good friend of mine cautioned me again today, that for somebody who is scrupulous like me it is probably not a good idea to seek replies to moral questions from people in an online forum who know so little about me…

Well anyway it’s past midnight here so good night now…

Kathrin
 
Kathrin said:
Let’s say you are looking at a website in a foreign language with somebody else to look up something, but you also or especially, want to use it as an opportunity to show the other person that you are already well-versed in the foreign language. Would that be lying because you have that underlying purpose that you didn’t disclose? Or sinful in any other way? Or am I being scrupulous again?

Kathrin
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Frankly, you are being scrupulous AGAIN. I haven’t read a thread you have started which shows you anything other than scrupulous. You really have to have a long talk with your priest.
 
Thistle,

the priest at my church knows about my scrupulosity. So do the priests at a small monastery in the next town. I don’t know if the length of the talk would make a difference…😉 (now I am just feeling scrupulous about your advice again) 😉

Maybe my friend was right though, posting these questions on a board where people who don’t know me can also answer might make things worse.
Maybe I have to stop it. Only come here with things about the faith I would like to know, where there can be a clearcut answer. Not with gray area things like that.

Thank YOU for being frank.

Kathrin
 
Kathrin said:
Thistle,

the priest at my church knows about my scrupulosity. So do the priests at a small monastery in the next town. I don’t know if the length of the talk would make a difference…😉 (now I am just feeling scrupulous about your advice again) 😉

Maybe my friend was right though, posting these questions on a board where people who don’t know me can also answer might make things worse.
Maybe I have to stop it. Only come here with things about the faith I would like to know, where there can be a clearcut answer. Not with gray area things like that.

Thank YOU for being frank.

Kathrin
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I am curious as to what foreign country you want to move to?
 
Maybe it’s more like playing with the thought.
And it’s a long story, kind of, but I can just tell you what country. It’s Croatia.
 
Kathrin said:
Maybe it’s more like playing with the thought.
And it’s a long story, kind of, but I can just tell you what country. It’s Croatia.
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I moved to a Foreign Country from Kansas when i was 28. It was called Texas!
 
Ok, now I have a good example, this situation just happened:
I’m with my parents, they are watching TV and I am looking at the TV program in the paper. I tell them about a documentary show that I know they have watched before; I would like us to watch it because of one of the topics I read about. Since it is a bit embarrassing or complicated to explain why, I don’t disclose that. That is, I tell them about the show, but I don’t say exaclty why I would like to watch it.
Now did I lie because I didn’t disclose everything, or is that a nromal and ok thing to do?
 
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