Is it ok to ask God to "subdue" our enemies?

[trials]

Another OT question. OK, I know in the OT the context of God subdueing the enemies of the Israelites is very specific - they were a nation overthrown and persecuted by a succession of empires.

But let’s bring this notion to the modern day. God says repeatedly in the Old Testament, things like, “Israel if you would only heed me, how I would subdue your enemies… crush your oppressors, etc, etc.” And there are repeated prayers in the Psalms of those praying for God to defeat their foes.

Are we allowed to pray the same? I’m sure in a vaguer sense we can pray that enemies of the Church such as secularism, abortion groups, etc. fail. But what if specific people are behaving as our enemies? Bullying us emotionally for example, making our lives incredibly difficult. In this case, can we pray for God to subdue our enemy… or should we instead be welcoming the cross they provide us with?

Yes, I’m thinking specifically. Someone recently hurt me beyond belief and I recall just looking to Heaven and saying “God can you do something here please” and I don’t know if what I was really asking was God, can you make this person get out of my life. Am I allowed to ask that, or should I instead be saying, thank you for sending this person that allows me to experience the pain and burden of the cross?

Advice welcome.

 

[trials]

Just as a clarification of my above thread - I don’t mean we pray that God kill our enemies, not get rid of them that way, which would have been the literal sense in the specific context of the OT - but I mean that God would stop them another way - by them leaving our life, by them converting their hearts to Him. Can we pray for our oppressors to be crushed this way or should we take up our cross daily…?

 

[WoundedIcon]

newadvent.org/cathen/07149b.htm

Yes, so long as it isn’t personal, if you really needed to in the interest of defense and justice you could actually go so far as to pray for death.

 

[Stratocatholic]

You pray for your enemies, love them even. That could mean that God lift them up in conversion, or bring them low in defeat. Frequently, an enemy must be brought low before he can be lifted up.

 

[feed_me]

No. God will deal with them on his own terms just like he does with everybody else.

 

[PazzoGrande]

Are we allowed to pray the same? I’m sure in a vaguer sense we can pray that enemies of the Church such as secularism, abortion groups, etc. fail. But what if specific people are behaving as our enemies? Bullying us emotionally for example, making our lives incredibly difficult. In this case, can we pray for God to subdue our enemy… or should we instead be welcoming the cross they provide us with?

Yes, I’m thinking specifically. Someone recently hurt me beyond belief and I recall just looking to Heaven and saying “God can you do something here please” and I don’t know if what I was really asking was God, can you make this person get out of my life. Am I allowed to ask that, or should I instead be saying, thank you for sending this person that allows me to experience the pain and burden of the cross?

Advice welcome.

That’s a really good question. You know what’s funny, the same question has been going through my mind over the last couple days. I guess I’m feeling much the same thing.

For me I feel like I don’t even have to pray that God would punish those people. I don’t even have to lift a finger. Their punishment would come anyway. These are cases where I have been rather defenseless. Long story but I’m not in the position to fight back.

Matthew 5:44 tells us to pray for those people. Romans 12:14 does too. The expectation is for us to meet perfection. It isn’t easy. And I suppose you don’t feel much different from me on this – I don’t want to pray for those people because it would make them better people but I’d rather them suffer for their wrongdoings from the just God. Not saying this is the right attitude, just saying I know how you feel. I feel like the best revenge is just to leave them and let God take care of them.

You might also want to check out the Holy Father’s Encyclical Spe Salvi vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/encyclicals/documents/hf_ben-xvi_enc_20071130_spe-salvi_en.html
Check out section #3, maybe it’ll help.

Perhaps in times like that the best you can do (at least for now) is pray for strength to bear those people, if you really can’t avoid them. You and I might not (yet) be in the place where we’d want to actually pray for them, but we can at least pray for endurance to put up with those awful people and for opportunities for us to avoid them. Perfection takes time and effort but we have to start somewhere.

 

[PazzoGrande]

newadvent.org/cathen/07149b.htm

Yes, so long as it isn’t personal, if you really needed to in the interest of defense and justice you could actually go so far as to pray for death.

Interestingly, Saint Rita of Cascia did that and got what she wanted. Her husband was killed and her sons wanted revenge. Rita couldn’t stop them but she prayed for them to die just so they won’t do something horrendous.

 

[trials]

That’s a really good question. You know what’s funny, the same question has been going through my mind over the last couple days. I guess I’m feeling much the same thing.

For me I feel like I don’t even have to pray that God would punish those people. I don’t even have to lift a finger. Their punishment would come anyway. These are cases where I have been rather defenseless. Long story but I’m not in the position to fight back.

Matthew 5:44 tells us to pray for those people. Romans 12:14 does too. The expectation is for us to meet perfection. It isn’t easy. And I suppose you don’t feel much different from me on this – I don’t want to pray for those people because it would make them better people but I’d rather them suffer for their wrongdoings from the just God. Not saying this is the right attitude, just saying I know how you feel. I feel like the best revenge is just to leave them and let God take care of them.

You might also want to check out the Holy Father’s Encyclical Spe Salvi vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/encyclicals/documents/hf_ben-xvi_enc_20071130_spe-salvi_en.html
Check out section #3, maybe it’ll help.

Perhaps in times like that the best you can do (at least for now) is pray for strength to bear those people, if you really can’t avoid them. You and I might not (yet) be in the place where we’d want to actually pray for them, but we can at least pray for endurance to put up with those awful people and for opportunities for us to avoid them. Perfection takes time and effort but we have to start somewhere.

Thank you, that link was so helpful. Also made me feel about this small. Hope in the midst of suffering, that’s what I needed to hear. My suffering is so much less than what she endured, I am such a weakling. But sincerely, thank you for providing that link, it’s just what I needed to hear, I need strength to bear the weight of my cross, and I can only get that strength from God who loves me, and so that is who I need to ask for strength. Beyond that - His will be done. I don’t know what made my “enemies” behave the way they do towards me - maybe something they endured in their past which isn’t their fault and which God pities them for. God grant me your love, compassion and understanding. And help me carry the weight of my cross more patiently. Amen.