Is it okay to pray out of a Jewish prayer book?

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DelsonJacobs,

I’ll summarize my argument by pointing out that poor application and understanding of the Church’s teaching is not equivalent to a change in it. I’ve shown pretty clearly what the Church said and that they did not, in fact, override those teachings at Vatican II. There is little more I can do other than continue to point to Church documents.

God bless.
 
St. Thomas proposes that observance of the ceremonies of the law is mortally sinful because it is a profession of faith contrary to Christ.

All ceremonies are professions of faith, in which the interior worship of God consists. Now man can make profession of his inward faith, by deeds as well as by words: and in either profession, if he make a false declaration, he sins mortally. Now, though our faith in Christ is the same as that of the fathers of old; yet, since they came before Christ, whereas we come after Him, the same faith is expressed in different words, by us and by them. For by them was it said: “Behold a virgin shall conceive and bear a son,” where the verbs are in the future tense: whereas we express the same by means of verbs in the past tense, and say that she “conceived and bore.” In like manner the ceremonies of the Old Law betokened Christ as having yet to be born and to suffer: whereas our sacraments signify Him as already born and having suffered. Consequently, just as it would be a mortal sin now for anyone, in making a profession of faith, to say that Christ is yet to be born, which the fathers of old said devoutly and truthfully; so too it would be a mortal sin now to observe those ceremonies which the fathers of old fulfilled with devotion and fidelity. Such is the teaching Augustine (Contra Faust. xix, 16), who says: “It is no longer promised that He shall be born, shall suffer and rise again, truths of which their sacraments were a kind of image: but it is declared that He is already born, has suffered and risen again; of which our sacraments, in which Christians share, are the actual representation.”

newadvent.org/summa/2103.htm#article4
 
DelsonJacobs,

I’ll summarize my argument by pointing out that poor application and understanding of the Church’s teaching is not equivalent to a change in it. I’ve shown pretty clearly what the Church said and that they did not, in fact, override those teachings at Vatican II. There is little more I can do other than continue to point to Church documents.

God bless.
The Fourth Council of the Lateran states that Jews and Muslims must wear special dress to enable them to be distinguished from Christians (Canons 68, 69). If this is still applicable, why aren’t you making sure that Catholics ensure this is carried out? Do you believe that Jews and Muslims should be made to do this? What if they don’t want to?

How about quoting from Cum Nimis Absurdum? It was issued by Pope Paul IV in 1555. Under the bull Jewish males were required to wear a pointed yellow hat, Jewish women had to wear a yellow kerchief or badge, and all the Jews were to be forced to live in ghettos away from the rest of the public, required to attend compulsory Catholic sermons on the Jewish Sabbath instead of going to Temple.

Quoting texts and understanding/applying them according the rules governing canon law are two very different things. The Church has made many statements about the treatment of the Jews which meant something for the time they were made, but they don’t apply anymore.

The Church has the authority to change its laws issued in such statements, but not the Gospel of God. The gospel that St. Paul preached was that God’s call and selection of the Jews is “irrevocable.” (Romans 11:29) The Church has not always understood how to apply this and, being subject to human sinfulness, has not always lived up to this part of the gospel either. We are a Church of sinners. We are not perfect.

In the past the Church even called for persecution of the Jews. There are actual documents with names of some of my ancestors who were tortured and murdered in the Spanish Inquisition despite the fact that members of my same family hold a Catholic heritage that goes back to Jerusalem of the 1st century. (So if you wish to continue the fight, get in line with the others who failed over the centuries.)

If I can hold on to the Catholic faith despite Anti-Semitic actions it now regrets and strives never to repeat, you can too. Otherwise if we held on to everything the Church once said about the Jews you would be obligated to round me up into a ghetto, enforced laws that would keep me from owning private property, and perhaps worse.

If Mexican-American Catholics can (and will in a few days) celebrate Dia de los muertos by making ofrendas (offerings of favorite foods and other items to their dead relatives) with the Church’s approval, how it is that Jewish customs are forbidden? Are the pagan trappings of Halloween, Saturnalia, and the Day of the Dead–which come from unbelievers yet have been incorporated into All Saints, Christmas, and All Souls Day okay but customs which our very Lord and the Blessed Mother of our Lord observed are accursed?

If your interpretations are correct, then you need to hold to all of them. If you fail in the least then you fail in the greatest. (Compare Luke 16:10) Your opinions do not make you a faithful Catholic, your actions do. (James 2:17) If you believe it is wrong for a Catholic to observe Jewish customs, then your belief is powerless if you do not force me to stop and keep me from teaching this.

Jewish customs cannot save, anymore than Irish, Polish, Italian, etc. I am saved not by observance of the Mosaic Law or its days, but by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

However, the Bible promises at Romans 11:26 that “all Israel will be saved.” But how will it be known to the nations that God’s word be true if you stop the Jews from being Jews? If you make the Jews assimilate and you destroy their customs, then how can you tell if Israel is saved? If you destroy the identity of Israel, is Israel really saved?

But that is off the subject.

Back to the subject. It is okay, according to Church authority, to pray out of a Jewish prayer book as long as a Catholic follows the Church’s direction as I pointed out before. If you don’t argue with these directions, you argument is not with me but with today’s Church.
 
I don’t see why not. Jesus was a Rabbi after all. He wouldn’t disapprove.
 
Isn’t praying simply our talking to God through Jesus Christ being our mediator. And God’s Word is God communicating to Us. And we Do have the Lord’s Prayer as an example of how to pray. In That – we are starting out – "our Father who art in heaven , hallowed be Thy Name – etc. In That we are acknowledging Who God is and where He resides – asking forgiveness – in other words an example of what We can be incorporating into Our praying to God through Jesus Christ.
 
I don’t see why not. Jesus was a Rabbi after all. He wouldn’t disapprove.
Rabbis deny the Jesus is the Christ, but Jesus does disapprove of this. We cannot take rabbinic teaching and practice as normative for Christians.
Isn’t praying simply our talking to God through Jesus Christ being our mediator. And God’s Word is God communicating to Us. And we Do have the Lord’s Prayer as an example of how to pray. In That – we are starting out – "our Father who art in heaven , hallowed be Thy Name – etc. In That we are acknowledging Who God is and where He resides – asking forgiveness – in other words an example of what We can be incorporating into Our praying to God through Jesus Christ.
Can you elaborate how specifically you see the Lord’s Prayer as praying to God through Jesus Christ? Jesus is not mentioned by name in the prayer so it is not immediately obvious how you mean this, especially since you are coming from a Baptist background, which is a very diverse spectrum.
 
Rabbi Saul (St. Paul) tried diligently to encourage the Gentile converts to imitate the style of prayer developed by the Hebrew people. Pray constantly with thanksgiving. The Jewish prayers I have found seldom if ever ask God for anything. Instead they give praise and thanks to God for his manifold gifts and blessings. Most prayers begin with the formula “Blest be the Lord our God, King of the Universe, who has blessed us… commanded us…” etc. Pick up that Jewish prayer book and develop your prayer in the style of the Patriarchs.
Remember that Jesus was not kidding when he told the crowds that their righteousness must exceed that of the scribes and Pharisees. In order to do this we must understand the background of their practices and rules. Rabbi Saul told his converts that all scripture is valuable for training in righteousness. He could have been speaking only of what we call the old testament as the new had not yet been formulated. Therefore it is only reasonable to study Torah as a basis for our Christianity. In order to be good Christians it would be well to learn first how to be good Jews.
Study Torah and pray, praising and thanking God.

Reb Levi
 
Mr /Ms “Q” – I used the Lord’s Prayer as an example because most everyone is familiar with it. The context of it – Matthew 6:9 is where the passage actually starts. “But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly” Jesus Christ being our mediator between us and God is brought out in 1 Timothy 2:5 “For there is one mediator between God and men; the Man Christ Jesus , who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.” And you’re right – Jesus Christ Isn’t mentioned in that passage – it Is acknowledging God the Father / in heaven/ and we’re to be giving reverence to His Name. And to be forgiving others as He has forgiven us.
My comment was because I’ve never been in churches that Use a prayer book. The other passage I was looking for is Philippians 4:6 -7 “Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God; and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.”
When I was small – we were taught to pray ’ Dear Heavenly Father, etc, etc, and closing with 'in Jesus Name, we pray, Amen. We were told to close our eyes and fold our hands. Closing out everything around us.
Praying doesn’t need to be that formal – Lots of times in the mornings I look up in the sky and ‘talk to God’ – knowing in my heart that I’m praying Through Jesus Christ.
 
Just looking over some old posts and I realized I never posted Dr. Pitre links that I said I would try to do. So here they are.

Dr. Pitre’s website is here.

The study of his that I thought was so good (as are all of his studies) was
The Bible and The Mass: The Jewish Roots of Christian Liturgy CD and can be found here.

Please consider getting and reading his book Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Eucharist (here or here). You will be glad you did.

Another helpful book in this area is Worthy is the Lamb by Thomas J. Nash (here).
 
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