Is it possible for the Church to be wrong even under Papal Infallibility?

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The Church is infallible on matters of faith and morals. Everything else like science, mathematics, geography, etc. the Church is not infallible with.

Could it be possible though that there is some unknown truths in science, mathematics, geography, etc. that would prove positions of the church wrong, and they are just unaware of it because that is not in their realm of infallibility?

So basically we claim that The Church has infallible knowledge of about 30% of existence (made up statistic), could there be something in that other 70% that they are unaware of that would prove them wrong?
 
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The whole point of the infallibility of the Church is to hand on what God has revealed and the moral law that must be obeyed to be saved. The infallibility of the Church is needed in these matters precisely because they cannot be known otherwise. There is no reason for the Church to be infallible in those matters where human reason alone can achieve certainty (reason can derive the moral law, but not the supernatural consequences of it; natural reason alone cannot discover what God has revealed).
 
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I think it’s possible some dogmatic claims could definitely come to a head with science. I see a lot of debate and conflict over Adam and Eve’s story and the genetic and archeological evidence for the orgins of homo sapiens sapiens.

If a way was ever found to objectively observe events from the past, that could prove…very interesting.
 
Infallibility is about not leading us astray, and it is something promised by God. The Church leads us the best it is able, but it can’t lead us astray in matters of Faith and morals. God made this promise to the Church, and God is the author of the universe.

There is nothing we can find in the universe that contradicts this promise from God, as that would be God contradicting Himself.

Does that answer the question?
 
I can’t remember who said it, but there was a saint I believe who said something along the lines of if scripture and observed reality are ever at odds our understanding of scripture needs to be adjusted.
 
No. The Church’s authority extends not only to revealed truths, but also to those truths so closely connected to faith and morals that the latter cannot be upheld otherwise. To use a ridiculous example, the Church would have the authority to condemn the proposition that 1+1+1=/=3, if people were to assert that and use it as an argument against the Trinity.
 
I’ll try to find it

You were correct. He didn’t say it exactly but I probably picked it from a commentary on him.
 
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CatholicHere_Hi said:
Could it be possible though that there is some unknown truths in science, mathematics, geography, etc. that would prove positions of the church wrong, and they are just unaware of it because that is not in their realm of infallibility?
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You are assuming that science, math, geography have absolulte “Truths”, (capital T) and that it possible for persons to grasp these Truths, and to have certainty as to their knowledge. Big assumptions!

In order to make these assumptions, you need a philosophical system. That system would have to justify that nature follows “laws” that are always and everywhere consistent. You would need to show how what we perceive in nature is reliably related to what is actually there.

I am just pointing this out, because in our era, people assume anything “scientific” is a given, almost as if it were a magic word, beyond challenge; but anything religious is misty, subjective, not “Truths” but guesses, readily challenged and refuted if it does not fit our culture’s assumptions.
 
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For example, maybe the Church is wrong about what matters of faith and morals are…or… that they believe something to be faith and morals that actually isn’t. Only an all-knowing person would be able to clearly define those categories, and the Church doesn’t claim to be all-knowing.
 
CatholicHere_Hi said:
Could it be possible though that there is some unknown truths in science, mathematics, geography, etc. that would prove positions of the church wrong, and they are just unaware of it because that is not in their realm of infallibility?
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Of course. For example the mustard seed is not the smallest seed in the world. as per Mat 13:32. And many scientific truths may hold true until newer truths arise to replace those earlier “truths”. And truth is sometimes dependent upon the POV of the observer. We “see” the morning sun rises from the east and sets in the west. Is it true? Yes but.
 
Jesus was speaking to Jews, and relaying something to daily life. Mustard trees were a pain in how big they got. But it started out as the smallest of seeds, in their existence.

It’s not like they knew what seeds existed in the Amazon… or that Amazon even existed. How would he help by complicating things with that? 😛
 
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Since the Pope has only spoken used “Ex Catherda” twice in 2000 years and those two things deal with Mary’s virginity and assumption into heaven, it would be difficult to prove the church was wrong.
 
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