Is it true the name "Jehovah" is in Catholic Bible?

[Mystophilus]

You also have to remember that the letters J and W did not originally exist.

Well, sort of: the sounds both existed in Anglo-Saxon, and the letter forms existed before they were consistently distinguished as individual representations of their current sounds. The biggest problem there is the lack of regularised spelling in Middle English: my Beloved, who teaches the stuff, has shown me a single paragraph in which the writer spells the same word five different ways.

 

[patrick457]

Well, sort of: the sounds both existed in Anglo-Saxon, and the letter forms existed before they were consistently distinguished as individual representations of their current sounds. The biggest problem there is the lack of regularised spelling in Middle English: my Beloved, who teaches the stuff, has shown me a single paragraph in which the writer spells the same word five different ways.

Shakspere, Shaxpere, Shakespeare, Shakespear, Shackspeare, Shake-speare, Shaxper, Shexpere.

J did come to represent the affricate /dʒ/ in English (formerly represented by cg or cȝ) under the influence of Old French, while the Germanic /w/ phoneme was originally represented by the runic wynn (Ƿ) - the uu digraph coming into popularity post-Norman Conquest.

 

[TypesAndShadows]

Didn’t the pope say that we shouldn’t use translations of the bible that have Jehovah in them?

Wasn’t that why they changed the Jerusalem bible in the UK so that everytime Jehovah was mentioned in scripture that “THE LORD” was substituted for Jehovah?

Was that because “Jehovah” was uncertain or was it because “Jehovah” was offensive to the Jews and Pope Benedict didn’t want Catholic translations to be offensive to our Jewish bretheren?

I’m just asking these questions–I don’t know the answer to them–correct me if what I am saying or asking is wrong.

The Jerusalem Bible doesn’t use “Jehovah”: it uses “Yahweh”, which is somewhat more plausible. For use in the Liturgy, the Jerusalem Bible was changed in various ways, including replacing “Yahweh” with “Lord” or “the Lord”. This predates the death of JPII. It is to do with avoiding overuse of The Name, to make the reading of Scripture as part of the Liturgy as respectful (to God) as possible.

Whether Catholic Bible translations for general use should avoid the use of terms like “Yahweh” is a slightly separate issue from whether Scripture read out loud during Mass should use them. The needs of Scripture translations for reading out loud are not the same as the needs of Scripture for private study.

 

[adf417]

More on this subject…

lectio.unibe.ch/05_2/troyer_names_of_god.htm

 

[jcrichton]

Who says that “Jehova” is more correct?

Hebrew’s lack of written vowels and V/W mixing, combined with the I/J and U/V mixing of Early Modern English’s free spelling caused much of the variation in English. Tyndale’s Bible (1540) uses “Iehouah”, whereas Milton’s Paradise Lost uses “Jehovah” (7.602), i.e. exchanging I for J and U for W. Alexander Pope and then Byron followed Milton’s spelling, fairly effectively canonizing that one.

…according to some Jehovah Witnesses and some other non-Catholic Christians from my area (NY, NJ, DE) the correct (and only name) of God is not Yahweh but Jehovah–even when I’ve shown them the footnotes on a Bible published by the American Bible Society (non-Catholic) where it states that Jehovah is a derivative/compound… and even when making reference to the free info on wickipedia where it states that the modern term mostly accepted is Yahweh (tetragrammaton)… they have reason: “No.”

In addition to the usual issues of the obfuscations brought about via Catholic-Protestant polemics, it depends upon whether one is translating from the Greek κεχαριτωμενη (“having been highly favoured”) or the Latin plena gratia (“full of grace”). They both work, just from different sources.

…again… in my limited capacity (Greek is well… Greek to me)… I offered the contrast because it has been explained to me (non-Catholic Christians) that the original text (Hebrew/Arameic) transliterated into Greek did not find a sufficient term in English because the term was so highly encompassing that “full of grace” could not be enough to hold its full meaning… yet it seems that “highly favored” or “favored one” is way more comprehensive… really? one amongst many is more comprehensive than complete?

…it seems that you are adapt at Greek or are able to tread it… I’ve heard it say that that particular salutation/expression is found in Scriptures only twice (phonics: caritameni) is that correct? …and if it is what is the correct (closests to its original intent) meaning? …and how have they been expressed (interlocution)? (no rush: go!)

Thank you for your assistance!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

I’m not aware of any such statements to that effect (I’m likely to be wrong on this one though). I do know that using ‘Yahweh’ in the context of the liturgy was discouraged as being inappropriate.

…which runs the gambit of Sacrificing the Name of God because of a religious adaptation not Commanded by God: ‘…when you bless the people of Israel bless them in the name of “Lord”–which is my Name?’ …how can the title “Lord” be God’s Name? …was God, as Obama, out that week?

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Whether Catholic Bible translations for general use should avoid the use of terms like “Yahweh” is a slightly separate issue from whether Scripture read out loud during Mass should use them. The needs of Scripture translations for reading out loud are not the same as the needs of Scripture for private study.

…not to make you sound like a scientist… but… huh?

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[patrick457]

…which runs the gambit of Sacrificing the Name of God because of a religious adaptation not Commanded by God: ‘…when you bless the people of Israel bless them in the name of “Lord”–which is my Name?’ …how can the title “Lord” be God’s Name? …was God, as Obama, out that week?

Maran atha!

Angel

Well, for one, there’s the crucial issue of us not knowing how to pronounce Yhwh. ‘Yahweh’ is a good bet, but ultimately it’s just that, a bet, like ‘Yehowa(h)’ or ‘Yahuwe(h)’ or ‘Yahuwa(h)’ or ‘Yehwe(h)’ or ‘Yaho(h)’ or ‘Yahu(h)’ or even ‘Jehova(h)’. Plus, one could argue that the tradition of substituting ‘Lord’ for the Name is a very long-standing one.

 

[ProVobis]

Well, for one, there’s the crucial issue of us not knowing how to pronounce Yhwh. ‘Yahweh’ is a good bet, but ultimately it’s just that, a bet, like ‘Yehowa(h)’ or ‘Yahuwe(h)’ or ‘Yahuwa(h)’ or ‘Yehwe(h)’ or ‘Yaho(h)’ or ‘Yahu(h)’ or even ‘Jehova(h)’.

Probably not that far fetched as “w” may be pronounced “VEH” or “VAH” in some tongues, including Polish, Pope John Paul’s native language.

 

[ProVobis]

In addition to the usual issues of the obfuscations brought about via Catholic-Protestant polemics, it depends upon whether one is translating from the Greek κεχαριτωμενη (“having been highly favoured”) or the Latin plena gratia (“full of grace”). They both work, just from different sources.

Well, we know what works in Greek and we know what works in Latin, now we have to figure out what will work in English. Maybe something neither “highly favored” or “full of grace”?

 

[patrick457]

Well, we know what works in Greek and we know what works in Latin, now we have to figure out what will work in English. Maybe something neither “highly favored” or “full of grace”?

“(Highly- / fully-) graced one”?

 

[patrick457]

Probably not that far fetched as “w” may be pronounced “VEH” or “VAH” in some tongues, including Polish, Pope John Paul’s native language.

That’s also the case in modern Hebrew BTW: the sixth letter of the abjad is pronounced like the English v.

 

[ProVobis]

“(Highly- / fully-) graced one”?

Or in the modern vernacular, “Hail Mary, what’s up?”

youtube.com/watch?v=MNn7FNvoAfA

 

[patrick457]

Or in the modern vernacular, “Hail Mary, what’s up?”

youtube.com/watch?v=MNn7FNvoAfA

It does…remind one of the New World Translation.

And when he went in before her he said: “Good day, highly favored one, Jehovah is with you.”

Translating chaire as “good day” just becomes rather hilarious/weird, in a dark, morbid, ironic sort of way.

The soldiers now led him off into the courtyard, that is, into the governor’s palace; and they called the whole body of troops together, and they decked him with purple and braided a crown of thorns and put it on him. And they started greeting him: “Good day, you King of the Jews!”

 

[Michael_Francis]