Is it wrong for a man to masturbate his wife, within marriage?

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As for my post script, I was being facetious.

According to my priest, others on this forum and Fr. Heribert Jone in his compendium on moral theology, these acts would NOT be sinful. It is specifically and directly answered in section #753 ''Apart from the marriage act which the couple cannot or do not wish to perform:
a]" Mutual acts that are sexually stimulating are lawful when done with just cause[e.g. as a sign of affection]"

I was looking for help finding the truth and instead got personal opinion as a replies.
 
As for my post script, I was being facetious.

According to my priest, others on this forum and Fr. Heribert Jone in his compendium on moral theology, these acts would NOT be sinful. It is specifically and directly answered in section #753 ''Apart from the marriage act which the couple cannot or do not wish to perform:
a]" Mutual acts that are sexually stimulating are lawful when done with just cause[e.g. as a sign of affection]"

I was looking for help finding the truth and instead got personal opinion as a replies.
And now we see why your other thread was deleted. You are looking for a way around the Church’s teachings on sex.

CCC.2363 The spouses’ union achieves the twofold end of marriage: the good of the spouses themselves and the transmission of life. These two meanings or values of marriage cannot be separated without altering the couple’s spiritual life and compromising the goods of marriage and the future of the family.
The conjugal love of man and woman thus stands under the twofold obligation of fidelity and fecundity.

Priests’ opinions are fallible. We are to follow the teachings of God through our Church. What is Section 753? That’s not in the Catechism.

So opinions of others are fine if they agree with you, but if it is restatement of the CHURCH’S rules, that’s not OK. :rolleyes:
 
As for my post script, I was being facetious.

According to my priest, others on this forum and Fr. Heribert Jone in his compendium on moral theology, these acts would NOT be sinful. It is specifically and directly answered in section #753 ''Apart from the marriage act which the couple cannot or do not wish to perform:
a]" Mutual acts that are sexually stimulating are lawful when done with just cause[e.g. as a sign of affection]"

I was looking for help finding the truth and instead got personal opinion as a replies.
I’m hoping that more from Jone can be posted to get a better idea of his context. I have a feeling that he is referring to such things as what we might call “petting”, or “making out”. I have asked another member (who has provided a Catholic source in the past) to help me provide a good/referenced answer for this…my understanding is that once a couple engages in penetration, then a marital act has commenced and must be completed.
 
I am not looking for a way around Church teaching …In fact the catechism2363 DOES NOT RELATE SPECIFICALLY TO MY QUESTION . However, Fr.Heribert Jone’s book Moral Theology which was used in seminaries for priestly catechesis] DOES in SECTION #753 which I have cited for you… Please see above for exact verbiage…

BTW the moderators do not remove posts for" looking for a way around Church teaching".Fr. Jone’s Moral Theology has an Nihil Obstat and a Imprimatur. I’m quite sure you know what these are…
 
Ahs-- thanks for the reply.

I’m not referring to penetration…rather manual/oral stimulation during a period of abstinence NOT resulting in climax by either married party.
 
I should have added:

We also have to take into context what we actually see from Jone is the quote we do have. “Mutual acts that are sexually stimulating are lawful when done with just cause[e.g. as a sign of affection]”

So, each couple must necesarily discern at which point they are doing a stimulating action for the purpose of “affection”, and when does it become a matter of masturbation…“the deliberate stimluation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure…[where] sexual pleaseure is sought outside of the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is acheived.” (See CCC 2352)

However, in the full context of 2352, it doesn’t seem like a married couple is capable of meeting this definition of masturbation unless then actually thwart the marital act (extravaginal ejeculation, or female-only climax while husband purposfully witholds).

2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. “Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action.” “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of “the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved.”
To form an equitable judgment about the subjects’ moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability.

Yet, this beings me to the other point, of which I am waiting the source from the person I contacted, where penetrative sex without climax is forbidden…as a form of masturbation.
 
I am not looking for a way around Church teaching …In fact the catechism2363 DOES NOT RELATE SPECIFICALLY TO MY QUESTION . However, Fr.Heribert Jone’s book Moral Theology which was used in seminaries for priestly catechesis] DOES in SECTION #753 which I have cited for you… Please see above for exact verbiage…

BTW the moderators do not remove posts for" looking for a way around Church teaching".Fr. Jone’s Moral Theology has an Nihil Obstat and a Imprimatur. I’m quite sure you know what these are…
You do not need to be snarky, sir. Yes the Catechism does relate specifically to your question, sexual acts by a married couple must be directed toward unity and include the openness to life. You tell me what kind of stimulation of a wife outside of an act of sexual intercourse is open to life and I will find the section in the Catechism that allows it.
 
My wife and I are VERY orthodox when it comes to living our lives WITHIN Church teaching. We are striving to live out our married lives quite within church teaching. It seems that there may be some indeed however, who schedule their marital duties on a calendar, and fulfill them through a hole in a sheet.
 
You do not need to be snarky, sir. Yes the Catechism does relate specifically to your question, sexual acts by a married couple must be directed toward unity and include the openness to life. You tell me what kind of stimulation of a wife outside of an act of sexual intercourse is open to life and I will find the section in the Catechism that allows it.
How about a love smack on my wife’s arse? How about her grabbing my crotch within the act of a passionate marital kiss? When you find the exact numerical passages in the Catechism that disallows this behavior, let me know.
 
How about a love smack on my wife’s arse? How about her grabbing my crotch within the act of a passionate marital kiss? When you find the exact numerical passages in the Catechism that disallows this behavior, let me know.
Those are not sinful, coda. Be at peace.
 
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