Is Jesus really the savior?

[filter2700]

I know this is a huge topic, but I’ve got a few basic questions regarding Jesus. I came across this site, and it’s a site operated by Jews. Here is some of their reasoning as to why Jesus is not the son of God.

The Bible gave a warning about a dangerous, false prophet who would arise to test our faith in G-d. In Deuteronomy 13, G-d describes this false prophet as a member of the Jewish people (v. 2, 7) who would tell true prophecies and would have the power of miracles. G-d Himself would give this false prophet the power to perform miracles and reveal prophecy, but the false prophet would try to seduce the people away from G-d’s Law and towards strange gods unknown to Judaism. The purpose would be to test whether we are truly committed to living under the Law, or whether we will be dazzled and fall for the temptation to join a false path to salvation (v. 3-6, 7-8, 11). In this Biblical passage, G-d repeatedly commands the Jews to kill this false prophet, lest the evil spread and destroy many souls.

To be accepted by the people, the false prophet would sometimes pretend to be a righteous Jew who fulfills the Law, but at key moments he would turn against certain details of the Law in order to make the breach (v. 6, 7). This is the reason that verse 1 commands us not to add or subtract any details from the Law, and verse 5 warns us to remain steadfast with all the traditions of the Law.

In Deuteronomy 17, this false prophet is also described as someone who would rebel against the authority of the judges of the Jewish people, and who should be put to death for his rebelliousness (v. 8-13, esp. v. 12). Who are the judges? The highest court in Israel was the Sanhedrin, which was established by Moses (Exodus 18:13-26; Numbers 11:16-29), and which lasted more than 15 centuries. The members of the Sanhedrin were the rabbis known as “Pharisees” (Pirushim, “those with the explanation”). G-d gave permanent authority to these judges to interpret the Law and G-d’s Word, and it is a commandment to follow their decisions without turning even slightly to the right or the left (Deut. 17:11). But the false prophet would challenge the authority of the Sanhedrin, thus revealing himself to be an evil man.

In the book of the prophet Daniel, this false prophet is described as a king (the eleventh horn on a terrible beast) who would wage war against the Jews (the “holy ones”; see Deut. 14:2 on this term) and would change the Law including the calendar and the holidays (Daniel 7:8, 20-25). Elsewhere, this false prophet is described as a king who would disregard the G-d of his fathers, exalting himself as a god and giving honor to this new god-head (Daniel 11:36-39).

The man known today as “Jesus” fulfilled all these prophecies. He became a “king” (over the Christian church) who changed the original Law, doing away with the Hebrew calendar and the Biblical holidays (Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur, Sukkos the Festival of Tabernacles, Passover, etc.). He disregarded the one, infinite G-d of the Hebrew Bible in favor of a new “trinity” that included himself. And he repeatedly broke the Law by committing terrible sins, while openly challenging the G-d-given authority of the rabbis of the Sanhedrin.

Naturally, Jesus did sometimes pretend to respect the Law, but whenever he thought he could get away with it, he turned right around and broke that same Law. In Matthew 5:17-19, he declared that he came to fulfill the Law, and in Matthew 23:1-3 he defended the authority of the rabbis. But the rest of the time, he rebelled against the Law—thus showing that his occasional words of piety were meant only to hide his evil agenda.

• noahide.com/yeshu.htm

That makes sense to me, I can understand their point of view and I’m not sure how I would respond to a Jew who used that kind of reasoning.

Jesus was known as “the king,” waged wars against the Jews by challenging the rabbis, he changed the Law, disregarded God, and claimed himself to be God and have honor to the new Trinity.

I don’t think Jesus “disregarded” God, he actually said he was God so he included himself. Why is it that God’s chosen people deny the man that we believe to be God in flesh? Why don’t they believe him to be the savior? He did change things and was “controversial” for the time, so I can understand how they would see him as a false prophet. In the old testament God says there would be a false prophet and it seems like Jesus might fit who the false prophet is. So what is the Christian response to all of this? Was Jesus really God, what are the reasons they deny him and what are the reasons we accept him?

 

[Perth21]

Hi, I understand why this question would bother you, but I will put things into perspective… Jesus came and said He did not come to change the old ways… and in fact, if you think about the ten commandments, Jesus did not break them, and that is the foundation of our faith, not these celebrations or rituals that the Jews did. To bring it also to perspective, Jesus Himself was called ‘the King of the Jews’, that’s what INRI, the inscription you will see in crucifixes now stands for. What Jesus did do that bothered the Jews was set the right example about life, which was to love and worship God above all, and to love each other as oneself. Jesus showed that it was more important to be true to your faith and stay pure in heart, than to just do rituals for show without actually concentrating on it(or avoid doing certain things which were considered impure). In fact, what Jesus showed was that true impurities do not come from the outside, touching swine, women having their menses or men having discharges and you sitting on the same place as them, or things as such, but that rather true impurities come from the heart, the true impurities are the selfish and evil ways that the human sometimes goes through, such as lust, greed, selfishness, arrogance, and so on… Also do not forget that in the Old Testament itself Jesus’ coming as God is predicted (In the beginning, the Word was with God, and the Word was God, and the Word would make its dwelling amongst men). Also the Holy Spirit too was mentioned in the Old Testament, therefore the Trinity wasn’t as people sometimes say, just a New Testament thing. It is important that as a Christian you stay true to your faith and treat others as you’d want to be treated, but above all, love God (including the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit! The Jews don’t understand, and we can’t explain, because the Mystery of the Holy Trinity is just that, a Mystery). Let them keep their views if they don’t want to believe you, but don’t look to lecture them or argue with them, God made you the way you are, if you are Christian, keep your faith, it happened for a reason, because He wanted it, and He will call on those that truly do seek finding Him, therefore as for the other people that want to judge your religion, well, just let them be, for example, these Jews that were showing these comments about Jesus, let God judge them… not you, let them be, don’t get involved in religious debates because if someone is a really good speaker, you might be tempted to lose the best thing you have, your faith in Christ and the Catholic Church. Hitler was a brilliant speaker, but were his ways good? Think about that… From experience I know not to lose Christianity, as I lost myself before and was ‘Muslim’ for about 8 or 9 months… God made me find my way back, and thanks and glory be to Him, because He showed me the way! No matter what the other religions say about Jesus, no matter how believable their points may be, remember how God made you and what path He brought you to, His Catholic Church (the very same Jesus began). As for the Jews, don’t worry about trying to convert them to Christianity, we are the two closest religions out of the monotheistic religions… we should be brothers with them, and I find all this arguing pointless… God made us a path to salvation, it is also written in the New Testaments that the Jews too will be saved, but on different terms. Anyways, I hope this helps! May God bless you!

 

[Spencerian]

I know this is a huge topic, but I’ve got a few basic questions regarding Jesus. I came across this site, and it’s a site operated by Jews. Here is some of their reasoning as to why Jesus is not the son of God.

• noahide.com/yeshu.htm

That makes sense to me, I can understand their point of view and I’m not sure how I would respond to a Jew who used that kind of reasoning.

Jesus was known as “the king,” waged wars against the Jews by challenging the rabbis, he changed the Law, disregarded God, and claimed himself to be God and have honor to the new Trinity.

I don’t think Jesus “disregarded” God, he actually said he was God so he included himself. Why is it that God’s chosen people deny the man that we believe to be God in flesh? Why don’t they believe him to be the savior? He did change things and was “controversial” for the time, so I can understand how they would see him as a false prophet. In the old testament God says there would be a false prophet and it seems like Jesus might fit who the false prophet is. So what is the Christian response to all of this? Was Jesus really God, what are the reasons they deny him and what are the reasons we accept him?

Let’s take them point by point of Scripture.

Deuteronomy 13 does indeed warn the Jews not to go chasing about gods and with false prophets. However, the text does not specifically describe Christ, who, when asked to give signs by the skeptical, refused to do so, contrary to these verses (Mark 8:11, Matthew 16:1, Matthew 12:38 and Luke 11:29). A false prophet would have taken this opportunity.

As for Deuteronomy 17, yes, the authority given to the priests of the Covenant is clear. But God, in the form of Jesus, is not just a man. He, as God, formed the first Covenant and, thus, is not bound by it. He can, and did, modify the first covenant to create and fulfill a covenant that all mankind, not just the Jews, could enjoy for salvation. Christ makes this clear: “I did not come to abolish the law or the prophets but to fulfill them” (Matthew 5:17). If Christ were a false prophet, then He would only be a man and then, yes, the penalties and warnings of Deut. 17 are crystal clear. Deut. 17, as with 13, does not cite a specific false prophet at all, so any challengers to the Old Covenant could be applied here just as a horoscope reading could apply to someone.

The citations of Daniel 7:8, 20-25 and Deuteronomy 14:2 are not relevant in regards to establishing the identity of the false prophet; the writer is using a Protestant tactic of taking one verse and pulling them out of context. Again, it presupposes that there isn’t anyone in authority to change the Covenant. That’s not true. God can. He is not bound to keeping it and can modify at will. With Christ’s divinity established in much of New Testament scripture and in eyewitness testimony, these warnings to the Jewish people do not apply.

The Old Testament tells of the coming of a Messiah, but the problem with the Jewish people’s interpretation of the coming of the Messiah is that they did not expect him to be God Himself. This should be a logical conclusion, for only God can make or break a covenant. Otherwise, what the Old Testament scriptures described as a messiah would apply, and the Old Covenant would not and could not be changed, for that messiah would NOT be God and thus bound to uphold the requirements of the Mosaic law. The remaining arguments in the passage would all have justification–if Jesus was not God.

Christ proved His glory and might through something the Jewish people did not foresee (not even His own disciples): That power over death was well within Christ’s authority, through His Resurrection. Christ’s return is well documented historically and by eyewitnesses. No Old Covenant prophet or sage ever had this ability.

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

Remember that Christianity came from Jews. Jesus was a Jew, the Apostles were Jews, and all of the first converts were Jews too. So, it would be untrue to imply that all the Jews rejected Jesus. Be that as it may, it is clear that a lot of them did. But God revealed why in Romans 11:

What then? Israel failed to obtain what it sought. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened, as it is written, "God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes that should not see and ears that should not hear,
down to this very day.And David says,"Let their table become a snare and a trap,
a pitfall and a retribution for them;let their eyes be darkened so that they cannot see,
and bend their backs for ever."So I ask, have they stumbled so as to fall? By no means! But through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous.

 

[Simpleton]

In Deuteronomy 17, this false prophet is also described as someone who would rebel against the authority of the judges of the Jewish people, and who should be put to death for his rebelliousness (v. 8-13, esp. v. 12). Who are the judges? The highest court in Israel was the Sanhedrin, which was established by Moses (Exodus 18:13-26; Numbers 11:16-29), and which lasted more than 15 centuries. The members of the Sanhedrin were the rabbis known as “Pharisees” (Pirushim, “those with the explanation”). G-d gave permanent authority to these judges to interpret the Law and G-d’s Word, and it is a commandment to follow their decisions without turning even slightly to the right or the left (Deut. 17:11). But the false prophet would challenge the authority of the Sanhedrin, thus revealing himself to be an evil man

I found this interesting and wonder how the Jews would explain the absence of the Sanhedrin?

In the New Testament Christ is recorded as saying that He did not come to destroy the Law or the Prophets but to fulfill them: if this is the case then wouldnt we be able to see in the New Testament Church everything the Old Testament Church was but in a more perfect manner?

 

[promethius]

That makes sense to me, I can understand their point of view and I’m not sure how I would respond to a Jew who used that kind of reasoning.

Oh please,

That article was utter garbage. Nothing in Deuteronomy 13 or 17 refers to anything even remotely resembling Christ. Sure, it refers to prophets who see things in their dreams and it comes true who then say to worship other gods, but Christ doesn’t fit that criteria at all.

As to the question of bucking the rabbis’ authority: first, in Deuteronomy 17 rabbis are given NO judging authority whatsoever… only the Levitical PRIESTHOOD is given that authority… and where is that priesthood today? Dead and gone with the destruction of the temple.

Now, on to Daniel: read the whole thing. It’s a prophecy of Christ coming and destroying four earthly kings who rose up from the earth. It even refers to Christ’s title as the Son of Man and His approval and authority of the Father.

This article is nothing more than a despicable mutilation of the meaning of the scriptures… it’s sick and wrong.