Is Jesus The Father?

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anrmenchaca47

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Just had an argument with my wife about this topic. Is Jesus The Father since he is the high priest?
 
Jesus is consubstantial with the Father. The Trinity is three persons in 1 God.

Jesus and the Father are not the same person but they are the same “1 God”. God the Father is a separate person from Jesus who is God the Son (and the third person is God the Holy Spirit), but they’re both the same God. CCC 202.

Jesus also said, “Whoever has seen me has seen the Father.” John 14:9 . Again this is because they are the same “1 God”, although they are separate persons.
 
No. The Father is God. Jesus is God. The Holy Spirit is God. But the Father is not Jesus. Jesus is not the Holy Spirit. And the Holy Spirit is not the Father.

Depending on how you were saying Jesus is the father, there are a few different wrong conceptions of the Trinity that could be possible.

We also would refer to Jesus as the Son.
 
John 12:49
For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment—what to say and what to speak.

I sometimes think of Jesus as our shepherd, and God as the farmer He works for.
 
By analogy, are you the same person as your wife? No. And at the same time, in marriage you come together as one.
It is only analogy, but it gives us a sign that distinct persons can be one with each other, and not lose their distinct and unique “personhood”. (language can only fail to describe this at some point)
 
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The three persons of the Holy Trinity are: Father, Son, Holy Spirit

All three are God; neither are each other.

The Father is God, but the Father is NOT the Son, nor the Holy Spirit.
The Son is God, but the Son is NOT the Father, nor the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is God, but the Holy Spirit is not the Father, nor the Son.
 
My wife says that he is a father in a sense that that’s why we call priests father. Since Jesus is a high priest then her conclusion would be to say Jesus is a type of father and that is why we call priests father. When she prays the “Our Father…” she prays to Jesus since he is God. I can’t wrap my head around this. She the. Asked me if I believe Jesus is a father and I said no and she looks at me with complete disappointment and surprise as if I’m wrong…I tried explaining that Jesus is the Son but she goes back and says he’s a father and that’s why we call priests father…I can’t see her logic.
 
Jesus is not “The Father”. He is “The Son”.

It’s true that the term “Father” when applied to a priest is a term of respect, similar to “Rabbi”, “Teacher” or “Master”. So we could call Jesus “father” in that sense just as one could call him “rabbi”, “teacher”, or “master”. However, because calling Jesus “Father” is likely to cause confusion about which person of the Trinity he is (confusion which you yourself seem to be experiencing), we typically don’t call him Father.

Now having said that, if we pray the Our Father, we are praying to God. When we pray to God, we necessarily pray to all three persons of the Trinity even if the prayer is only directed specifically to one of the Persons.

So when I pray the “Our Father”, it’s going to God the Father, God the Son (Jesus), and God the Holy Spirit, not just to God the Father. Similarly, when I pray the Jesus Prayer (“Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me, a sinner”) it’s going to all three of the persons of the Trinity, not just Jesus. And when I pray the “Come Holy Spirit” prayer, it’s going to all three of the persons of the Trinity, not just the Holy Spirit.

So therefore, when your wife prays the Our Father, she is praying to Jesus and also to God the Father and God the Holy Spirit as there is no way of separating the three of them from each other and praying to just one and not the other two. But she needs to understand that when we speak of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit in the persons of the Trinity, then Jesus is God the Son, the second person of the Trinity. He is not God the Father, the first person of the Trinity.
 
Jesus is the Son. But at the same time–
Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.”

Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, 'Show us the Father '?

"Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.

"Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves.

"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father.

"Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
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So, ack. Here you have Jesus saying “whoever has seen Me has seen the Father” and at the same time is saying “I am in the Father and the Father is in Me”, which blends them together, but at the same time, he’s talking about how distinct they are, in that he goes to the Father, and the Father is glorified in the Son. 🙂

But about the idea of the Fatherhood of Jesus-- it doesn’t particularly get developed much in the Bible, but you do encounter it with private mystics. Edvidge Carboni is the first one that comes to mind.
 
Father is God
Jesus is God
The Holy Ghost is God

The Father is not Jesus
Jesus is not the Father

The Father is not the Holy Spirit
The Holy Ghost is not the Father

Jesus is not the Holy Ghost
The Holy Ghost is not Jesus

Etc.
 
anrmenchaca47 said:
Just had an argument with my wife about this topic. Is Jesus The Father since he is the high priest?
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Modern Catholic Dictionary, Father
Theologically, a father is the principal one who produces of his own substance another person like himself. There is, consequently, a Father within the Trinity, who begets God the Son. But the triune God is himself spoken of as a Father, with respect to the rational beings whom he made to share in his own possession of knowledge and love. Among human beings a father is the male parent of his own children and, ultimately, the ancestor of all his progeny. In Church usage the term is applied to the early spokesmen and defenders of Christianity, bishops who attend regional and especially ecumenical councils, and priests in general or specific priests in their role as confessors or spiritual counselors of the faithful.
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http://www.therealpresence.org/cgi-bin/getdefinition.pl
 
anrmenchaca47 said:
When she prays the “Our Father…” she prays to Jesus since he is God.
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When we pray the “Our Father” we are saying Jesus’ words to our Father, God.

Honestly, this is not something I’d argue with my spouse.

I’d buy a book like “Theology and Sanity” and read it together with my spouse.
 
Yes, and marriage is probably our best sign of this reality. JP2 calls marriage the primordial sacrament.
 
I think this basically hits the nail on the head. Jesus could be thought of as a father because of his high priesthood. But it’s not helpful to use that terminology much because of the confusion it would cause among Christians between God the Son and God the Father.
 
I think I should just not share apologetics or anything having to do with our faith with her anymore. Because we both have different views and we end up getting into arguments. But she makes it seem that shes the correct one.
 
anrmenchaca47 said:
I think I should just not share apologetics or anything having to do with our faith with her anymore. Because we both have different views and we end up getting into arguments. But she makes it seem that shes the correct one.
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Probably a good idea. I’m an increasingly Catholic Anglican and my wife is a conservative Presbyterian. Trying to reason through disagreements about faith tends to result in tears, especially as I become more Catholic, and at this point I’ve kind of accepted that I just have to do what I think is right, and only discuss disagreements if she asks or it becomes absolutely necessary.
 
A priest is a an appointed mediator between us and God the Father; a minister of the sacraments that convey God’s grace to us. Jesus is the Great High Priest because He is the highest authority, the one true Mediator. If Jesus was the Father, then He wouldn’t be the High Priest; He would simply be the Father.
 
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